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Roots of Tamil Nadu secessionism in India

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by D.B.S. Jeyaraj

It was only a few months ago that the world witnessed the military defeat of the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) at the hands of Sri Lanka’s armed forces.The LTTE popularly known as tigers posed a threat to the unity, territorial integrity and sovereignty of Sri Lanka.

The tigers or LTTE espoused the creation of a separate state-Tamil Eelam-comprising the Northern and Eastern provinces of Sri Lanka and launched an armed struggle to achieve this goal. For several decades the LTTE maintained territorial control over parts of the North and east and ran a parallel administration.

The military debacle of the LTTE is being viewed as the military defeat of Tamil separatism in Sri Lanka.There is an increasing tendency to perceive the rise and fall of the LTTE as a “terrorist” phenomenon alone and turn a blind eye to the underlying political causes which led to the evolution and growth of separatism among the Tamils of Sri Lanka.

Against this backdrop it would be interesting and illuminating into the rise and fall of a related development in neighbouring India. The years immediately before and after Independence from the British saw a Tamil separatist movement emerging in India too.

Unlike in Sri Lanka Tamil separatism in India did not result in organized armed violence against the state. It was basically non-violent and was confined within the parameters of democratic dissent.

Indian Tamil secessionism also did not reach the levels to which its counterpart in Sri Lanka did. The Indian central and state government writ ran at all times in all parts of lands inhabited by Tamils. Also unlike in Sri Lanka very little force and repression was used in India to suppress Tamil secessionism.

More importantly, the roots of Tamil secessionism in India and Sri Lanka were different. In India , the seeds of separatism were sown when a majority hemmed in by a minority sought to empower itself. In Sri Lanka, separatism grew gradually as a minority found itself being restricted and oppreseed by a majority.

ANNIVERSARIES

This column will therefore delve briefly into the decline and fall of Tamil secessionism in India. It would also be appropriate at this juncture as the past week records three significant anniversaries in the Tamil politics of India.

[Periyar E. V. Ramasamy with C. N. Annadurai]

September 15th is the birth centenary of CN Annadurai or Anna the founder of Tamil Nadu’s leading political party the Dravida Munnetra Kazhagham (DMK) or Dravidian progressive Association. September 17th is the 60th anniversary of the DMK.

September 17th is also the 130th birth anniversary of E. V. Ramaswamy Naicker or Eevera the founder of Dravida Kazhagham (DK) or Dravidian Association. The DMK was an off-shoot of the DK. It was the DK that pioneered secessionism in South India. The DMK followed in DK footsteps thereafter.

Arguably both modern India and Ceylon/Sri Lanka are colonial constructs. It was the British who unified their territorial conquests into a cohesive unit for administrative convenience. But the British also fostered divisions within their conquered subjects to facilitate governance.

Interestingly this unification and division paved the way for both greater and lesser identities. While an all-embracing “Indian” nationalism and identity began evolving a number of sub-nationalisms and multiple-identities also began flourishing.

India itself was an “idea” albeit a superior one but there were other competing ideas. Thus there emerged in South India the concept of an alternative, “Dravidian” identity. A short re-run of history is essential to understand this development.

GENESIS

This is of crucial importance as there can be no proper understanding of Tamil secessionism in India without analyzing its genesis. The roots of Tamil Ndu secessionism lie in the vibrant anti-Brahmin movement of the 20th century. This in turn led to the rise of a Dravidian ideology leading to a demand for a Dravidian state. Thereafter it metamorphosed into a demand for a separate Tamil state. It is necessary therefore to focus on events leading to direct Tamil secessionism.

In ancient times the Tamil country in India was ruled by the three great Chera, Chola and Pandya dynasties and to some extent the Pallava dynasty. There were also periodic conquests by the Hoysala, Rashtrakooda and Chalukya kings. Tiny principalities and vassal states under the suzerainty of powerful rulers also existed.

When European countries like England,France,Portugal, Holland and Denmark began setting foot in South India the older Tamil dynasties were no more. Three other powers namely the Mughals, Mahrattas and Vijayanagara Nayakkars had made their mark and as a result there was a proliferation of feudal rulers.

South India was under a mixed bag of rulers reigning over both big as well as small states. They ranged from powerful kings like the Nizam of Hydrebad to the insignificant Rajah of Pudukkottai. The British assiduously practiced their divide and rule approach to acquire most South Indian territory through conquest and compromise.

MADRASI

To this day many people of North India refer to South Indians as “Madrasi” or from Madras. This reference was not due to the city of Madras (Now Chennai) but originated as a result of what was once the province of Madras encompassing the greater part of South India.

The Madras province of British India known officially as the Presidency of Fort St.George (in Madras city) included at its heyday much of South India. The present day Tamil Nadu state,the Malabar region of Kerala state,the coastal Andhra and Rayalaseema regions of Andhra Pradesh state, the Tulu Nadu region and Bellary districts of Karnataka state, the Brahmapur and Ganjam districts of Orissa state and the Lakshadweep Islands comprised the Madras presidency.

Speakers of Tamil were the single-largest linguistic group in the Madras province. Telugu speakers were a close second. Together Tamils and Telugus formed 78 % of what was then the Madras presidency. Malayalee, Kannada, Tulu ,Urdu and Oriya speakers comprised the rest

With English being the official language linguistic tensions were virtually absent. The great divide was in terms of caste. The Brahmin caste was upper-most due to cultural, social, economic and religious factors.

The Hindu religion’s “Varnashrama dharma” caste concept afforded a privileged position to Brahmins. The Brahmin monopoly on Sanskrit language used for Hindu worship enhanced their position further. Under the British they learnt English and were miles ahead of other castes in English literacy.

BRAHMINS

With a penchant for learning the Brahmins took to education under the British in a big way. Brahmins began filling up official positions and teaching jobs under the British rule.They took to law, medicine and accounts.Brahmins also served the feudal rulers well and obtained grants of lands to administer. There was also Brahminic control of assets bestowed to temples.

Thus the numerically tiny Brahmins (around 4%) were entrenched as a privileged minority in the Madras presidency. They dominated most government jobs, professions and teaching , owned lands and estates and managed properties of temples.They also had much influence over media and the arts.

While the oppressed castes at the bottom rungs of Hindu society continued to languish the other castes regarded as forward also began climbing the socio-economic mobility ladder under the British. These included the Tamil speaking Vellalas and Mudaliyars, Chetties, Nadars, the Malayalee Nayars, Nambiyars and Krupps and Telugu speaking Reddys and Khammas etc.

In a bid to counter Brahmin domination the upper crust leaders of these castes began grouping together. Since these groups came from different ethnicities a non-linguistic identity was sought. Their resentment of Brahmin domination and common interest brought about an overarching non-Brahmin group identity.

A non-Brahmin or anti-Brahmin consciousness evolved.This was transformed into a “Dravidian” consciousness and articulated as such. Dravidian was fundamentally a linguistic term revived by the western scholar Robert Caldwell.

DRAVIDA

Dravida itself was derived from Sanskrit.A Sanskrit scholar Kumarila had used the term “Dravidabhasa” (Dravidian languages) in 8th century AD to denote the Tamil and Telugu languages.The term Dravida was used in Sanskrit literature to describe the lands south of the Vindyas (South India) and inhabitants.

Caldwell’s revival of the term was in reference to the principal languages of South India-Tamil, Telugu, Malayalam, Kannada and Tulu.They were considered as “springing from a common origin and as forming a distinct family of tongues”.

This term was most suitable for the emerging non –Brahmin , South Indian elite to identify themselves. A movement for social reform was formed as Madras Dravidian Association (Different to DK) in 1912. This opened the floodgates. Several “Dravidian associations” followed in its wake illustrating the yearning and despair among non-Brahmin communities for progress and emancipation.

The growing Dravidian consciousness saw some respected Non-Brahmins form an association called South Indian Peoples Association as an advocacy group.This in turn formed a political party called South Indian Liberal Federation. Membership was open to all non-Brahmins.

An English newspaper “Justice” was started. Eventually this led to the organization being known as the Justice party. The nationalist Congress party was leading the struggle for Independence from the British.Many of the Congress leaders were educated Brahmins.

The Justice party on the other hand did not want independence from the British until social justice prevailed. In other words the Justice party wanted independence to be delayed until social reform displaced Brahmin dominance. It depicted the Congress as a Brahmin party.

JUSTICE

As a result the Justice party participated in the limited governance provided by the British and ran several administrations in the Madras province from 1921.This co-operation has stigmatized the Justice party as collaborators of colonialism.

Gradually it became obvious that the non-Tamil linguistic groups were becoming less enamoured of “Dravidian nationalism”. Comparatively the Tamil speaking on-Brahmin elite was better off than others. This led to some heartburn and non-Tamil associations were formed to promote non-Tamil interests.

The Tamils were also at the forefront of Dravidianism as their language was the oldest and most developed of the Dravidian languages. Some regarded the other Dravidian languages as being derived from Tamil. Sundarampillai sang of them as “children” from the Tamil mothers “womb.” This also caused resentment.

More importantly this led to a situation where the non-Tamil groups began moving away from the Dravidian consciousness. Dravidian was now being seen as co-terminous with Tamil. Thus the non-Tamils were reluctant to be identified as Dravidians though Scholars accepted the Dravidian linguistic label.

In that respect one must note that the “official” reference to Tamil in Sinhala is Dravida. The Tamil United Liberation Front (TULF) is called Eksath Dravida Vimukthi Peramuna. Tamil as “Demala” is regarded as being somewhat colloquial.

INVASION

If the South Indian languages were Dravidian most North Indian languages were classified as Aryan or Indo-Aryan. Sanskrit was regarded as the mother of Indo-Aryan languages. Sanskrit unlike Tamil had gone out of usage but had spawned several numerically preponderant linguistic groups like Hindi.

The anthropological and archaeological wisdom propounded by the Dravidian school of thought at that time was that a pre-Aryan Dravidian civilization had existed in India before Aryan invasion (This theory is strongly disputed now).

The Dravidian construct was that the Dravidians had a glorious civilization before being overrun by the Aryans. With the Brahmins retaining exclusive “ownership” of Sanskrit they were seen as Aryan “aliens” who were interlopers into Dravidian country.

Citing the classical “Sangam” literature where people were classified in terms of territory (Anbinainthinai) rather than occupation it was argued that casteism did not exist among Tamils until the Aryans invaded. They had introduced caste with the Brahmins (Aryan) at the top and reduced the original inhabitants to inferior “Shudra” status. The vehicle for this was Hinduism.

PERIYAR

It was around this time that one of the greatest progressives and original thinkers of India made his impact on the South Indian political scene. This was “Eevera” or EV Ramswamy Naicker whose 130th birthday was on September 17th. “Periyar” (great person) Eevera as he was called by his followers was originally a Congress party stalwart who organized the successful satyagraha at Vaikom in present day Kerala.

Disgruntled at casteism practiced by some Brahmin Congressmen, Periyar broke ranks and left the party. He also began enunciating radical thoughts dislodging Brahmin dominance, rationalism, atheism , North Indian hegemony, Caste oppression, equality of sexes etc.

Periyar himself was not Tamil though hailing from Erode in the Salem district of Tamil Nadu.Though fluent in Tamil Ramaswamy belonged to a Kannada speaking Naicker family.

In 1925 Periyar formed the “Suyamariyadhai Iyakkam” or Self-respect movement. Arguing that the Hindu religion provided the basis for Brahmin superiority and that it kept the Dravidians in bondage to the Aryans , Periyar called for Atheism on the basis of rationalism or “pahutharivu”.

“Kadavul Illai. Kadavulai vanangubavan Muttaal” (There is no God. Those who worship God are fools)the outspoken Periyar would assert.He denied God saying-If there was no God there could be no religion. If there was no (Hindu)religion there could not be caste oppression.

Periyar condemned Brahmin Caste superiority as an affront to the self-respect and dignity of non-Brahmins and so formed the self-respect movement.

Subsequently Periyar joined the Justice party and became one of its prominent leaders.A large number of non-Brahmin Tamils began gathering around Periyar over the years.

They were called “suyamariyathaikkaran” (self – respect adherent)or “Pahutharivaalan” (rastionalist) and subscribed to Periyar’s views. The most educated of these at that time was CN Annadurai an MA Graduate. Annadurai known as Anna was born on September 15th 1909 . He became Periyar’s disciple in 1935.

By the late thirties/early forties of the previous century both Periyar and Anna took up the stance that the Madras presidency should not form part of India and that it should be a separate state called Dravidastan. Being a part of “Hindu” India would only lead to permanent enthronement of Aryanism, Brahminism and North Indian hegemony it was argued.

Prior to this both Guru and Sishya had wanted a Tamil state on the basis of the “Tamil Nadu for Tamils” demand. Within a short time they changed position and wanted a Dravida state on the basis of the “Dravida Nadu for Dravidians” demand.

HINDI

Two factors brought about this political change for Periyar and Anna. One was the attempt to impose Hindi upon non-Hindi students by making the learning of Hindi a compulsory subject for all students.The other was the demand by Mohammed Ali Jinna for a theocratic state of Pakistan.

In 1937 the Congress party extended limited cooperation to the British and contested local elections. The Congress formed the administration in Madras presidency and Chakravarthy. Rajagopalachariyar or Rajaji became chief minister. In 1938 Rajaji introduced legislation to make Hindi a compulsory language. It was argued that India needed a single language to unite all its people.

This was resented by the non-Hindi people of Madras province. The Tamil people are very proud and fond of their language elevating it to the status of a mother (Thamil Thai) It is a highly emotive issue and any attempt to belittle or demean Tamil was to be opposed. Hindi compulsion was an affront. It was described as a “victory” of Sanskrit over Tamil,Aryan over Dravidian and Brahmin over non-Brahmin.

An anti-Hindi agitation was launched.Widespread protest demonstrations took place particularly in the Tamil speaking places of the presidency.. There was police firing and two Tamils Thalamuthu and Nadarajan were killed. There were attempts of self-immolation also. Around 1200 persons were brought to court and sentenced to jail. Among these were Periyar and Anna.

PAKISTAN

In 1939 the Congress withdrew from office and the Hindi imposition issue went away. But Periyar and Anna felt that a separate country was required to protect Dravidian languages in general and Tamil in particular. The danger of Hindi being imposed in an Independent India was there.

Subsequent events in post-Independence India proved that these fears were not liars. The anti-Hindi agitation also made many Tamils including the present Tamil Nadu chief minister Muttuvel Karunanidhi (who was fourteen years old then) more conscious of their language and heritage.

The second factor was the demonstration effect of the Muslim League and its demand for the creation of an Independent Islamic state of Pakistan. Periyar supported Jinna’s demand for a territorially non-contiguous state of Pakistan comprising Muslim majority regions in the east and west of India.

Periyar then embarked on a tour of north India and met Jinna in person.Anna did the interpreting.He argued for a Dravida state on the lines of an Islamic state. Jinna was assured that the 7% Muslims in the envisaged state would enjoy full rights.

As a result Jinna began referring to a Pakistan for Muslims, a Hindustan for Aryans s, a Dravidastan for Dravidians and a Bengalistan for Bengalis. Whenever he spoke of Pakistan Jinna also referred briefly to Dravidastan during the second world war.

After the war when the prospect of partition became a possibility Jinna abandoned support fror Dravidastan. It was only a two-nation theory-Hindu and Islam-thereafter.

The initial support by Jinna however boosted Periyar’s thoughts on a separate state. The envisaged Dravidian state was referred to as both Dravidastan (Jinna inspired) and Dravida Nadu in Tamil.

The support for a Dravida state was predominantly extended by Tamils alone. Apart from brief mention in English media the non-Tamil South Indians were lukewarm, to this concept.

PRESIDENT

Shortly after the anti-Hindi agitation , Periyar was elected president of the Justice Party. With this the anti-Brahmin self-respect movement and anti-Brahmin Justice party or South Indian Liberal Federation, experienced some form of fusion in practice.

By this time the Justice party was practically a Tamil party with most non-Tamils dropping out. There were however a few well-known non-Tamil leaders in the party but practically no support from the Telugu, Malayalee, Kannada masses.

Interestingly Periyar and Anna toyed briefly with Tamil secessionism and called for a Tamil state , before opting formally for greater Dravidian separatism and a Dravidian state. The reasons for this interlude is rather intriguing.

The growing anti-Hindi consciousness among non-Brahmin Tamils was manifesting itself in many ways.

In August 1938 a prominent Justice party leader TP Vedachalam from Trichy formed the Tamil Thesa Viduthalai Sangam (Tamil Nation Liberation Society) and began demanding the creation of a separate state for the Tamils.

At the second session of the Ramnad District Tamilians Conference at Karaikudi it was resolved ” to work for the formation of a separate Tamil province, exclusively for Tamilians, and the use of Tamil as the administrative language”.

A series of small meetings were held at various places in Tamil Nadu. These were attended by nondescript Tamils and presided over by little known personalities.

OPINION

But almost all these meetings passed resolutions calling for a separate Tamil state. “Thamizh Nadu Thamizharukke” (Tamil Nadu is for Tamils) was the catchy slogan

This groundswell of opinion was something that Periyar and Anna could not ignore. The growing sentiments of Tamils in Madras state had to be addressed. So both adopted the “Tamil State” cry instead of the “dravida state” demand briefly .

At a meeting held at Salem in October 1938 Periyar for the first time called for a Tamil state. He said that” if the Congress permitted the exploitation of Tamils by Brahmins and Northern Indians, the best way to preserve the liberty of Tamils was to agitate for separation from the rest of India and the proposed All-India Federation, just as Ceylon and Burma had chosen to stand aloof from India”, and ” urged the need for the ‘Tamilnadu for the Tamils’ campaign to be fought to the finish.”

Annadurai followed suit by speaking at several “Tamil Nadu for the Tamils” meetingswhere he eloquently appealed for the creation of a separate state for the Tamils of India.

The “Tamil Nadu for Tamils” demand began to gather momentum slowly . The imposition of Hindi as compulsory in schools and consequent protests enhanced support for this demand.

The need for an autonomous Tamil state under British rule as well as an Independent Tamil Country in the future was discussed and debated at local levels.

The “Tamil Nadu for Tamils” demand was suspended before it could capture popular imagination. This was because Periyar and Anna did a volte-face and re-activated the Dravida Nadu state demand.

POLICY

In a speech made on December 17th 1939 Periyar who earlier raised the demand “Tamil Nadu for Tamils” amended his stance to that of “Dravida Nadu for Dravidians”. This heralded the shift in policy but there was much confusion. The ensuing months saw people advocating both a Tamil state and a Dravidian state. To many Tamils there was no difference in both.

Finally the Justice party of which Periyar was president held its state conference at Thiruvaaroor on August 24th 1940 and formally adopted a resolution. The resolution stated that in order to protect Dravidian culture, arts and economy, the Dravidian homeland of Madras province should be separated from the rest of the Indian Sub-continent and ruled as a separate unit until the British left. Thereafter the Madras province would be an Independent country.

With the wisdom of hindsight it appears that to both Periyar and Anna the demand for a Dravidian state and Tamil state was synonymous. The core of both demands was the existing Madras province. It also appears that most advocates of South Indian secessionism also failed to draw a distinction between both demands.

In any event the short flirtation with a Tamil Nadu secession demand was over. The focus now was on greater Dravidian nationalism. The “Tamil Nadu for Tamils” demand had been subsumed by the “Dravida Nadu for Dravidians” political demand. It was doomed for several reasons.

(THIS SECOND PART OF THIS ARTICLE WILL BE POSTED NEXT WEEK ON THIS BLOG)

D.B.S.Jeyaraj can be reached at dbsjeyaraj@yahoo.com

Part II: Indian Independence and The Periyaar-Anna break-up

Part III: From “Dravida Naadu” Separatism to “Tamil Naadu” Secessionism

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218 Comments

  1. Dear Mr. Jeyaraj

    I think this article is very important at the present time. The Singala govt is trying to say that Tamil problem in Sri Lanka is only a terrorist problem

    The political grievances and reasons causing a military campaign by tigers to fight for Tamil eelam is ignored

    As you have rightly pointed out there was a separate state campaign in India for Tamil Nadu also. But there the demand was dropped because the reasons for the demand were met properly

    In the same way the proper way to deal with Tamil separatism is to address the causes and reasons for the Tamil Eelam demand. Simply calling it terrorism and treating it as a military issue will not be enough.

    I sincerely hope that your focus on Tamil Nadu separatism will make people realise that addressing the causes is very important

    I think that is why you have written on the subject

    Congratulations!

  2. GURKHALAND!!!

    LTTE = Freedom Fighters of Tamil People! India is led by faschist like Sri Lanka!

    Best wishes from,

    Gurkhaland!

  3. Thank you DBS for this
    I have tried hard for a long time to understand about why Tamils in India wanted a seperate state and why they called for a Dravida nadu instead of Tamil nadu

    I have been reading confusing mumbo-jumbo in academic jargon in English and emotional rhetoric in Tamil

    For the first time I am reading in simple , easy to understand English what had really happened. You relate the past events interestingly without taking sides

    I am learning a lot and hope to learn more

    You are a master in communicating effectively DBS

  4. Very interesting article DBS.

    So there was a secessionist movement by Tamils in India too. It is not powerful now I think

    So the Tamils in India wanted a seperate state at Independence but Tamils in Lanka did not want one. After Independence Tamils in Lanka wanted seperate state but Tamils in India dropped the idea. Why this happened is what I want to know

    Looks like Tamils in India wanted to put down a Brahmin minority but Tamils in Lanka wanted to break free from Sinhala majority

    I read your article with great interest and learnt a lot. Hope to learn more next week DBS

  5. Thillaiambalam.S,

    you don’t know the facts.

    Tamilnadu is Tamils place
    but srilanka is belonged singalas.
    so if you go and separate state in america, australia, canada will you receive?

    like wise ealam is a joke in Srilanka
    but separate country in tamilnadu is acceptable

    DBSJ RESPONDS:

    Ranil, Sri Lanka does NOT belong to the Sinhala people alone. This attitude of SOME Sinhala people is wrong and resented by all non – Sinhala communities. Since Sinhalese form the numerical majority in the country there is a majoritarian mindset that claims hegemonistic ownership of the Island and places the numerical minorities at the bottom of the pecking order.This “Mahajathiya”mentality lies at the heart of the ethnic crisis in Sri Lanka. This tendency to view non – Sinhala people as interlopers and regard the Sinhala people as the rightful owners of Sri Lanka has to change.

  6. I always maintained that the ethnic problem in Sri Lanka has much deeper roots than simply dismissing the whole thing as ‘LTTE decided to make trouble’.
    I believe that Tamil culture was closely connected to Africa and Australia. References to a sunken land called Kumari Kandam. It apparently connected India to Africa and Australia. Essentially it covered most of the present day Indian Ocean.
    Ofcourse this is very difficult to verify as it is not a simple matter to dive into the deep ocean and show it.
    I have heard interviews of Zulu in Africa and Aboriginal Australians. They correlate the idea that once there was a vast land which went under the ocean. Much of the black mans ancient history and culture originated there.
    I believe tamil came from there also.
    A friend of mine who lived in Jaffna said that the library there had texts on Kumari Kandam. And that it was burnt in the 1981 fire. Apparently in parts of India, some of these priceless texts remain.
    The tamil language and culture has managed to survive despite many historical attempts to wipe it out. It is now a fragment of what it once was. A culture that spanned large expanse of Asia.
    I believe the Angkor Wat temple and civilisations there were originally dravidian.
    There are even researchers that claim that the Buddha himself was a dravidian:
    http://jrmoore1958.tripod.com/buddha.html

  7. In India Tamils may have right to ask for a seperate state because it istheir original countru .although Srilanka is called by this name the right name is Heladiwa. Helayas are sinhala people. So heladiwa is belong to sihala people. Tamils are not original people in heladiwa. Through out years they visited Srilanka to cath fish during the seaso and went back. They have invaded Srilanka sevaraltime but chased out. After the portugese came to Srilnaka the tamil were brought to srilank to work in the tobaco cultivation just the same way british brought the Tamil to work in the tea estate. That is why tamils are only minoriy in Srilanka. If they were original people they would have been the majority.

    You are an ignoramus without any idea of Sri Lankan history ,Wijeratna………….DBSJ

  8. Wijeratne,

    Who was Sankilian, the King of Jaffna who was killed by the Portuguese invaders. ? King Elala, Devanampiatissan, and many Tamil kings ruled the whole of Sri Lanka two thosand years ago. Did the Portugese have tobacco farms in Jaffna? Have you heard of King Ravanan of Lanka ?

  9. Comments # 6 & 8 The links below from Wikipedia shed some light on the history of Tamils and Sinhalese in Sri Lanka.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sri_Lankan_Tamil_people

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinhalese_people

    Im not a historian and cannot vouch for the accuracy of these articles. But what is important is equal rights for all, and respect for the cultures, languages and religions of all who are currently citizens of Sri Lanka, and not debating over which community settled in Sri Lanka first centuries ago.

    The belief that the community that settled first must have ownership of the whole country today or that if a portion of that country was at one time in history independent centuries ago, it must be deemed independent today, is ludicrous and will only lead to conflict.

  10. Thanks DBJ for providing an excellent insight to many facets of South Asian mosaic. Some of this fits with the observations of some of the old Samasamajists who were hiding in Madras, NM, Vivienne. Doric etc. One of them I think it was Doric posed as a very high caste Brahmin and received much veneration. I have also read Mudaliar Rasanayagam’s History of Jaffna, explainig how Jaffna became a Vellala dominated society with peculiar Koviar caste / landless serfs who were possibly the Sinhalese at the time, that is the Sankili dominated period shortly after Portugese invasion. Perhaps you can dwell on that in another article.

  11. #6 Ranil jayasinghe

    Several thousands years ago, the Island now you call ‘Sri Lanka’ was connected to Indian subcontinent. So don’t you think there would have been a good chance that the people lived along the southern India might have lived in this island as well? Guess who those people were? It was tamils/dravidans.

    Singalese landed in the island only a few thousands years ago. So if you go and ask for separate state in america, australia, canada will you receive? like wise ‘sri lanka belong to singalese’ is a joke.

    Either way, Singalese came from India as well. So how come you can claim the island as yours since you also came here on a boat? Atleast we came here WALKING. Think about it.

    I know you believe in Mahavamsa or whatever that is. But everyone has their own ‘book’ and believes, so if we all want to fight based these ‘books’, it’s going to be a long fight.

    By the way, in America or Canada, they never say the country belong to Europeans or White since they came there first. If you are born here, you belong here. But somehow in Sri Lanka, people can’t get a break. That’s the difference. Get yourself educated… people like you ruined our little island.

  12. Well Said Sam. Religion, Race and Caste are all man created boundaries. If we were to be attacked by Aliens from other planets just for argument sake, we would all be peeing in our pants hudling together….Wake up all Srilankans ,this is your last chance get real!

  13. This history of Tamil separatism is succintly and brilliantly written. As a Brahmin from Mylapore in Chennai I know very well the antipathy towards my community in the Dravidianistic sections. The dispassionate way in which Mr.Jeyaraj narrates this situation is eminently readable and revealing. Awaiting your next instalment

  14. Sri Lanka belongs to sinhala people.

    Because through out history when ever a foreign threat came to Sri Lanka it was only sinhalese (and not any of the other ethnic groups who now try to devide the country and secure a piece of their own) who faught against those invaders successfully or otherwise and layed down their lives even as they were subjected to so much atrocities by those invaders who came to plunder the wealth and beauty of the island nation. These things are passed on from generaton to generaton through culture and genes and that is why Sinhalaese people even today and in to the future will lay down their lives to protect the soverginity of SL.
    No one can blame other ethnic groups for the way they feel as these are the things that come from the deepest recesses of the heart and their hearts call for the originl countries from where they come even if they don’t like to admit it. (OR in hind sight may be they are in some way helping their home lands to build empires) SL only ask such peolple to live peacefully in SL among sinhalese people who are very hospitable and peaceloving people. but when it comes to any harm to the country they will not look back twice.

    Now the west is against Sri Lanka for protecting her sovereignity as they too have plans to rape Sri Lanka for their own agendas in the east. It is for the betterment of the relations of the two parties to understand that east will not bow down to the bullying of the former colonial powers any more. As Asia Tribune warned the incoming US ambassedor that Sinhalese buddihists are people without a religion or a soul, they are very different peolple to the rest and need special understanding to work effectivly with them.

    If the Tamil Nadu doesn’t call for the hearts of the Tamil People dispersed world wide as SL calls for the heatrs of sinhalese and Macca calls for Islam people, then Taml Nadu has done some thing very wrong to the psychi of tamil people and Sri Lanka is not responsible for that.

    Sri Lanka belongs to all her people not to the Sinhala people alone. In a philosophical sense the country or land does not belong to people. People belong to the country or land……..DBSJ

  15. I noted DBSJ haste to respond to Ranil and Wijeratne for talking nonsense but not to makenthiran for doing the same on behalf of the tamils.

    DBSJ RESPONDS:

    People who comment here are doing so in their individual capacity. No one can speak on behalf of their alleged communities

    Strangely enough Makenthiran is NOT talking nonsense here. He has posed some questions to the ignorant, racist comments made by two persons . I see no reason as to why I should reprimand him.

    The “Sinhala supremacist” people who comment here have not understood the article written here at all.

    I have often criticised Tamils who make stupid comments in these columns. I do that to Sinhalese also when they do the same. It is not the race that matters but the content in the comments. Besides One does not know who is who because dirty cowards from both communities pretend to be from the other community and make irritating comments

    You writing as GARAWI has never commented on that but are rushing to condemn me on a racist basis. You are the mirror image of some tiger supporters who write comments here. It is disgusting to see the racist overtones of your so called comment

    In any case it is up to me to decide as to which comments need an observation by me. You Garawi cannot.

    I may comment on some comments and refrain from doing so on others

  16. Hi

    I am a Tamil brahmin girl who came to the US when I was two. I’ve heard and read about the anti -brahminism in Tamil Nadu. In fact that’s why my parents left their native Sreerangam and migrated.

    Your article was passed on to me by my Sri Lankan Tamil friend here. It’s fascinating and puts everything in perspective. I cant wait to read the continuation.

    Great job.

  17. Sam | September 18th, 2009 at 6:34 pm,
    During the last iceage, India and Sri Lanka were one land mass, with vast extent of land around Sri Lanka. The last iceage ended about 10000years back and the sealevel gradually rose. Tamils would have easily walked the 20miles comparing with Vijya’s travel of thousands of miles by sea.
    Even now, an able swimmer will swim the distance in about a day or two. The sea between Thalai Mannar and Thanuskodi is with so many islets and the depth of seawater is mostly about two metres or less. The distance between these islets are about a kilometer or two.

    I attended a seminar on the proposed bridge link between Sri Lanka and India(Tamil Nadu) about 7 or 8years back and in that seminar it was told that Sri Lanka will be once again connected with India in another 10000years. This time the reason will be different. The sand erosion from the river Godavari in Andra Predesh is being contiuously carried away towards these islets due to various undercurrents in a very slowly pace. I have previously commented about this. Groundwater civilization of the North and the East developed separately from the rainfed civilization of the South. Two different extents of parrapus(largems) for one acre is also a derivative of this concept of paucity of water.

    The mixed area of Vanni remained buffer zone in between. The Malaria too contributed its part. The tectonic faultline near Andaman and Nicobar islands creates sunami as often as about 150years. This sunami always caused havoc along the eastern coast. That is why the population along eastern coast is not dense as in Jaffna eventhough they too have groundwater and streams. No road system could develop along this coast due to this intermittant sunami and a permanent divide evolved between the North and the East. My mother used to say that her grandfather’s time, the west sea overtopped and flowed through to the East sea in Nainativu. He was the Vidane and I remember reading his name in a book about an incident that happened in 1854.

    In a lighter vain, I remember reading a rsearch paper or something similar ( not my line of interest) that the reason for the colour and the average size of the Mongolian race(Chinese, Koreans, Japanese mainly) is the ice age. They had to stay indoor, eating less and sharing resulted this. I will not vouch for this as my memory is also not sharp at this age.
    K.Easwaran

  18. Tell it to the tamil people who wants to carve out a mono ethnic country in the nothern and eastern part of Sri Lanka, while most of them live comfortaby in rest of the country as well.
    When boy who shot down a flying swarn claimed the wounded swarn from the boy who was nursig it to health he boldly said life belong to one who saves it not one who destroy it.
    It is the same here things belong to people who preserve them not destroy them in order to lay claim.

    Its tragi-comic to see a stupid bigot who takes pride in being a stupid bigot KK………DBSJ

  19. comment 9 (makenthiran)

    Machan if you do not know the history just shut up and listen.Dont make names like Devanampiatissan.You, some tamils just like that.Just fiddling with names.

    His name was Tissa.And he is not a dravida king.Origin from kalinga.Elalan was a south indian invader and he used to be a Honourable king.

    comment 12(sam)

    Same answer to this well educated man.Some tamils same like this.Think they are the number one.

    For sinhalese atleast we are proud ,we have Mahawansa.what do you have mate.Nothing lol.Just bloody words.In sinhala there is a saying ‘kathawa nam dolawen.eth gamana payin’.

    When lanka used to connect with india millions years back there was no modern human race in this planet.May be sam’s monkey granney walked to lanka.Dont be a stupid idiot mate.Dont insult other people by saying ‘get yourself educated’.

    People like you ruined this island mate.Wherever you go you people shit every where. International community know that very well.

  20. If India split along he langauage line (as in its current states), that will lead to the split of Sri Lanka too.

  21. Hello Sri Lankans of all communities writing comments here

    I am a Thamizhian from Madurai currently living in New Jersey,USA.

    I have been reading Mr.DBS Jeyaraj from the time he was Sri Lanka correspondent for “The Hindu” and got fired for exposing human rights violations done by the Indian Army

    I visit this site regularly to read Mr. Jeyaraj,s informative, interesting articles to understand what’s going on in Sri Lanka

    I find this time he has written about Tamil Nadu separatism .It’s roots and why it was doomed. I am amazed at Mr.Jeyaraj’s knowledge and insight about my home state’s history. I am learning something new

    What I find distressing is that Sri Lankan commentators on this blog are not reading or understanding what Mr.Jeyaraj has written. They are simply fighting with each other and posting comments that have nothing to do with Mr. Jeyaraj’s article

    If you cant read this article then please go elsewhere and post your comments. Let those of us who want to study Tamil separatism in India do so and comment in peace

    This is my humble suggestion

  22. I too am an Indian Tamil brahmin from Kumbakonam living here in Edmonton,Canada

    I am enjoying and appreciating this article by DBS on Tamil separatism in Tamil Nadu very much.

    I regret very much that Sri Lankan commentators are attacking each other here without appreciating the finer points of this very important article by DBS.

    There is a Tamil saying that the donkey does not know the fragrance of camphor

    The ignorant commentators dont know anything about the subject matter of the article

    If you dont understand please dont comment Sri lankans

    Let us Indians appreciate this quietly

    Please! please!

  23. I know for tamils sinhalaya modaya.But for me , Themala buruwa(donkey or kaluthai)

    You know these humble modayas will defend this island as they did for two milleniums.Those kaluthais will waste their energy as they are professional donkeys.

    What has your “comment” got to do with my article on Indian Tamil separatism?……..DBSJ

  24. Here we go again!, some of us still think that Sri lanka is only for Singhalese. tamils, muslims burgers and other mixed races should just shut up and live on whats given. Others here think that Eelam is the way. Chop the country and rule the North. Thankfully there is still some of us who think Sri Lanka is for all who love her. irrespective of the race, language or historical fact.

    History is history. let it be there. The future belongs to all to live and die in peace. great job DBSJ cant wait to read the rest.

  25. Dear mr jeyaraj

    As i have seen on comment 6 and 15 .You said lanka does not belong to sinhalese.I accept that.Because lanka belong to all ehnic races born and live there.

    But could you please explain why tamils say ‘tamil home land’ ‘eelam’ ‘eelam tamils’ ‘tamil national cause’

    We never say ‘sinhala homeland’ or ‘lanka sinhala’

    I know one thing for sure in lanka there is only one national, that is lankans.

    I dont want to even try “explaining” and grind the same flour again and again………..DBSJ

  26. In comment # 21 Ganesh asks : What has Easwaran’s comment got to do with DBS article on Indian Tamil separatism?

    Nothing. It is just that Sri Lankans love history and living in the past, remembering past injustices ( real or imagined ) and working out ways on how to get revenge for them, rather than focusing on the future or trying to resolve current problems.

    Some Sinhalese like to believe Sri Lanka belongs only to them, and try to use history to justify their beliefs. Likewise, some Tamils believe no Sinhalese or Muslims should settle in what they call Tamil homelands and try and use history to justify their beliefs.

    It could be that Easwaran is trying to say that Tamils were the first to migrate to Sri Lanka, and hence should be given special bumiputra rights.

    One reason Sri Lanka has not progressed is because of people’s negative mindsets or attitudes. If for example, a Nigerian migrates to Sri Lanka in 2009 and applies for and gets Sri Lankan citizenship this year, he should enjoy equal rights as any other citizen.

  27. Lanka, you should be ashamed to show your ignorance in public. Mahavamsa is written in Pali not in sinhala!!! Tamil language is rich in literature and one of the oldest languages in the world. Sinhalese is a mixture of several indian languages. Bandaranayake made sinhala the learning language in the schools, in a hurry to make political advantage, but they could not find text books to teach the children in sinhalese at that time!!!!

  28. Hello Mr.Jeyaraj
    I’m enjoying this article as I do all of what you write.But in this case there’s something special. I’m from Tamil Nadu and I’m in Sydney now. This article is appealing to me due to that. I was very young when I came here and caste was something I dont know much about except that my family is of Iyengar stock

    So this is rather interesting and I’m waiting to read the rest

    Thank You

    Rukku

  29. This is a very interesting article and I must thank DBSJ for choosing this topic.

    I will await for the rest of the article to appear before commenting on the subject matter.

    Reading some of the comments here made me to put my two cents in to some words.

    My intepretaion of Sinhala community (the origins and development) is that they are a fusion of many communities who may have walked, swam or sailed from many parts of India (including aryans and dravidians using the terminology of the article). Accordingly, Sinhala people identify Ravana as one of their ancestors. Roots of Sinhala language, culture, region & other beliefs can all be traced to India.

    However one key factor that makes Sinhala community unique is that they have absorbed all these value systems and, and converted them in to a unique identity linking those value systems to the island called heladiva (Sri Lanka). They have inhabited in all parts of Sri Lanka and rightly claim their right to live in any part of Sri Lanka. The accommodative mindset of Sinhala people stemming from their origins mentioned earlier makes them open to any idea any community who wish live with them.

    Unfortunately, I cannot make the same comments about Tamils of Sri Lanka (at least the leaders). They still have their umbilical cord linked to India . They still have their kith and kin traceable to Indian Tamils as many of them have migrated to Sri Lanka during 17th century or later.

    secondly Tamil’s exclusivist mindset resulted in a claim of monopoly over North & East of Sri Lanka resulting in a unique event…..the complete ethnic cleansing of North by killing and chasing of other communities making it a totally Tamil region. This is the biggest point of clash from Sinhala point of view and the biggest threat to the helas, the people of Heladiva.

    The Sinhala reaction is primarily based on above factors if one cares to understand it. Accordingly, the key change of thinking and the approach in making an accommodative society lies with the Tamil leadership.

  30. megaladonn (#23)

    It is because India created states on a linguistic basis that secessionism was controlled in Tamil Nadu. If there were no linguistic states India will fragment.

  31. This is very good. I didn’t know that Tamils in India wanted a separate state too. What happened to the demand? Wish you’ll write it soon dear DBS

  32. I am Janaki from Triplicane in Chennai,Tamil Nadu. I like the way you have written this article a great deal. Looking forward to more articles on Tamil Nadu politics by Jeyaraj saar

  33. 29. wesley | September 18th, 2009 at 9:07 pm
    “It could be that Easwaran is trying to say that Tamils were the first to migrate to Sri Lanka, and hence should be given special bumiputra rights.”
    Bumiputra concept is alien to us and is your concept. Do not prempt to stop me.If you can consider us equal then well and good, we can talk, otherwise leave us alone. Fine.
    Easwaran

  34. comment 30(nandasena)

    Mr Nandasena go and read carefully ,what i have written.(walige pagagena inne)

    I did not say Mahawansa written in sinhala or pali.What i said was, as a sinhalese we are proud at least we have Mahawansa.Because i was replyng to makenthiran.Please dont jump without seen.

    Next thing.i did not insult tamil language here.you are the one who insult sinhala language.Not even single language in this world has uniqueness.Everything has mixed.Even tamil.You are try be smart here mate.

    Before SWRDB made Sinhala language main language, do not forget our people used to learn sinhala from bhikshus.Sinhala was not alien language for our people.

    Go and refer old stone inscriptions.you can find sinhala and brahami akshara as well.

    Are these comments related to this article on Tamil separatism in India?……..DBSJ

  35. Great article. Though I read about this earlier it was in bits and pieces. One Analogy is that by the time British left Tamils in Sri Lanka were more or less the same position of Brahmins in India and Sinhalese were in the position of Non Brahmins. I think even among Tamils vellala clans were dominating professional and admin cercles in Sri Lanka. Lets put a side that our politiacians did not manage the issue. It was this very reason led to Sinhala backlash in 56. I dont think many Tamil prepared to accept that this disparity existed.

    DBSJ RESPONDS:

    Yes I agree. I’ve felt that the “minority” brahmins in Tamil Nadu were in a privileged position that was resented by the “majority” non – brahmins.The Dravidian parties who demanded a separate state to dislodge Brahmin dominance changed position when they gained political power through which they introduced affirmative legislation empowering non – Brahmins. Tamil Nadu non – Brahmin friends who speak glowingly of the “quota” system empowering non – forward and backward castes in higher education and state employment would in the same vein be highly critical of Sinhala attempts to empower themselves. Likewise I found great empathy among Tamil Nadu brahmins for the Jaffna Tamil plight until the LTTE blundered by teaming up with the ultra – Tamil extremists of Tamil Nadu and began a vicious anti – Brahmin campaign

  36. 32. Hela | September 18th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
    “Unfortunately, I cannot make the same comments about Tamils of Sri Lanka (at least the leaders). They still have their umbilical cord linked to India . They still have their kith and kin traceable to Indian Tamils as many of them have migrated to Sri Lanka during 17th century or later.”

    You must be kidding. You would not have heard of it. There was a Tamil Pulavar in the Sangam period, about 2000years back and his name was Eellathup Poothanththevanar. Tamils must be flourishing in Eellam in those days to send a Pulavar for Tamil Nadu poets to accept him as their equals. Sillapathgaram says”Eellathu unnavum Kallathu aakamum”. Then in the epic Mannimegalai, Mannimegalai paid a visit to Sammana Malai, that is the Adam’s Peak, Sivanollipatha Malai. It was known as Sammana Malai in Tamil Nadu.
    Easwaran

  37. comment 32(Hela)

    Thank you Hela.

    It is happy and proud to see there are some people with same wavelength.

    Some of them blind with ignorance.

  38. #22 lanka

    I think you missed my point. Maybe if you can come out your little box, you might understand what I was trying say.

    Bro, no one is disrespecting your race. In fact, I admire Singalese for their heritage, culture and hospitality. As people we need to see positive aspects of each other and learn to share what we are blessed with. Tamils are neither better or worse than singalese.

    If singalese are claiming ownership of the island based on what ever believe they have, they got some thinking to do. You might think that you defeated tamils and hence have the right for such claim, all I can do is feel sorry for both singalese and tamils over there.

  39. #19. k. Easwaran

    Thanks for the detail writeup. If you go to google map and see Sri Lanka/India with ‘satellite’ option, you can see the proof for what you are talking about. These two must have been together as you can see.

  40. Hi DBS,
    An extremely interesting article on a subject that I have absolutely know knowledge on. I am waiting for the second part of your write up.

    As for the comments, I can see the usual suspects have cropped up, claiming Sri Lanka for their respective communities. Every one claims to have been in the island first. Who cares as to who came to the island first? What matters is who is there now and how to treat all of the people that are there as equals. It does not matter if you are a Singhalese, Burger, Malay, Jaffna Tamil or Up-country Tamil, your mother country is where you were born.

    For Lanka (#22) who boasted that ?we have Mahavansa, you have nothing?, let me educate you a bit machan. Mahavansa was written in Pali. The texts were lost for centuries and were rediscovered in the late 1800s by the British and first translated to English and German. Singhalese translations came later. So if not for those “bloody foreigners” who found the old texts and realized their importance, we Singhalese might not even have a chronicle to learn about our history. For you to ask Tamils “What do you have” is displaying you ignorance. Their’s is a rich culture that is as sophisticated as any in Asia. We have a lot to learn from them just as they have a lot to learn from us. That can happen only if the two sides decide to stop shouting past each other and try to talk to each other.

    My last point is this is an article about the history of Tamil seperatism movement in South India. So why are the people so heated up about who came first to Sri Lanka?

    DBSJ RESPONDS:
    Thanks Ranjan. I am deeply disappointed by these comments by Sinhala and Tamil “hardliners”. Instead of relating to the Article’s theme and discussing Tamil separatism in India they are making irrelevant, totally unrelated comments vilifying each other.

    Some Tamils from India seem to be upset at this and have commented asking Sri Lankans to focus on the article in question. A few have sent private mails to me complaining about this.

    It’s really sad and makes me wonder at times whether a comments section serves any useful purpose

  41. Re Hela”s comments
    If as you say the sinhalese are peace loving and accomodating unlike the Tamils, why did the successive sinhalese governments both UNP and SLFP organized pogroms against the Tamils in 1956,1958,1977, 1983 and after that it has become and every day affair in the form of illegal arrests, detention without charges, extrajudicial killings, abductions etc. Why did the government send the Tamils to Jaffna, Batticaloa and other Tamil places? They could have safeguarded the Tamils where ever they were? May you only read the govt. propaganda or pretend not to know what happened!!! LTTE was the creation of the Sri Lankan Governments racist policies!!!!The govt. did not allow the Tamils to exercise their democratic rights. The Stayagrahis(non violent protesters)were assaulted, humiliated and jeered upon and jailed. Please read Tarzie Vitachi’s “Emergency 58”, which was banned in Sri Lanka and he had to leave Sri Lanka.

    Are your comments related to this article on Tamil separatism in INdia?………..DBSJ

  42. DBS jeyeraj

    just like you say this problem will never be over until tamils get there right to sri lanka..we sinhalese will never give up and never give into tamil terroism..tamils are not entitled to sri lanka in the same way indians are not entitled to a part of france

    sri lanka is a sinhala country and we will fight and defeat anybody who opposes that ..

    Sri Lanka is NOT a Sinhala country.Why dont you comment on this article on Tamil separatism in India?……..DBSJ

  43. All differences such as race, religon, language, caste, colour, majority, minority are there to ‎stay but they should be viewed positively rather negatively. We should learn to respect and ‎accommodate each other, then only these differences will not lead to division and conflict. ‎The love of humankind, mercy, kindness, compassion, concern for ones neighbours, respect ‎for elders, kindness to the young, charity for the poor and disabled are universal values that ‎should be practised by all irrespective of these differences. ‎
    Today we have been overtaken by greed and selfishness. We are prepared to go to any ‎lengths to make money and assert ourselves, our families, our race, our religion over others. ‎Notice that the word ‘our’ is predominant, which is the ego, present in every human being. ‎This manifests in various ways but the underlying reason is pure greed and avarice of the ‎individual. ‎
    Hence first we should look inwards and correct ourselves. In our various capacities such as ‎leaders, politicians, citizens, professionals, workers, students, housewives, mothers, fathers, ‎children, we should strive to practise universal humanistic values and desist from word and ‎deed that would cause hurt to other human beings.‎

  44. Please explain what you mean by the theory being disputed below,

    “The anthropological and archaeological wisdom propounded by the Dravidian school of thought at that time was that a pre-Aryan Dravidian civilization had existed in India before Aryan invasion (This theory is strongly disputed now).”

    Would be good if you can expand on this a little bit more.
    Thank you.

    DBSJ RESPONDS:

    Thank you for your interest in this. I am glad you’ve read the article in detail

    It’s only an aside and not very relevant to this article. Perhaps it can be expanded as a separate article in the future.But then looking at the comments made by many here I have doubts whether there is any point in presenting articles of this type to those people who post comments (totally unrelated to the article )attacking each others race and language.

  45. Nice one Mr. DBSJ.

    I was quite disturbed and saddened by the prevalent “anti-Brahminism” comments, while commenting on the “Outlook India” on line magazine.

    I’m glad that we, Sri-Lankan Tamils don’t do that. Not sure whether the Tamil Brahmins are aware of this.

    The contributions made by the Tamil Brahmins to our Language, Culture and Arts are immeasurable.

    I attach late “Queen of Songs” M.S. SubbuLakshmi’s (Tamil Brahmin) few video songs for fellow readers enjoyment. I’m really fond of the Katrinilee Varum Geetham song.

    Cheers.

    DBSJ RESPONDS:

    The Sri Lankan Tamil “Brahmin”experience is totally different to that of Tamil Nadu. The Tamil Nadu brahmins had great empathy with us because they understood our plight. Unfortunately Sri Lankan Tamils particularly those of tiger persuasion got enmeshed with the ultra- nationalist Tamils who are rabid, irrational haters of Brahmins and alienated substantial Brahmin sections

  46. Dear Jeyaraj

    It is an interesting article.Why are Tamilnadu Brahmins, like HiNDU Ram, Choo Ramasamy and Subramania swamy against the Tamils in Sri Lanks. Is it becuase they do not want Tamils getting equal rights and to become powerful force in globe?

    Even though I am Hindu, I am ashamed of Caste system in our religion. The Brahmins have created this for their own benefit. That is why Dravidian movement came in to fight for the oppressed people.

    DBSJ RESPONDS:

    Being against the LTTE is different to that of being against Tamils. Being opposed to Sri Lanka being divided does not mean being against Tamils getting equal rights in Sri Lanka. Ram, Cho and Swamy are against the LTTE and not the Tamils. They are against a separate state but are for Tamils enjooying full rights within Sri Lanka

    It is incorrect and irrational to say they are against because they are Brahmins. G. Parthasarathy and AP Venkateswaran are also Brahmins

    Those at the forefront of the anti – LTTE forces in Tamil Nadu are Tamil Nadu congress leaders. Most of them are not Brahmins. The most vociferous of them all EVKS Elangovan is the son of former Dravidian leader EVK Sampath and grand nephew of the father of Dravidionism Eevera Periyar.

  47. Hi Jeyaraj

    My comments have been deleted. Is it unacceptable?

    DBSJ RESPONDS:

    You post a comment at 2.36 am and ask why it was not released at 2.46 am. Dont you know that comments have to be moderated and released? Also do you think I can sit at this computer 24 hrs a day , 7 days a week? Why are you in a hurry like this?

    Besides I do have the right to accept or reject comments

  48. dear DBSJ,

    Very good write up. and explains a lot and make sense.but see all the comments you get. with this kind of idotic hardliners where can our country go. these people will never come out of their shells. worst part is we sinhala/tamil/muslim people who love this country want to live in peace as sri lankans will always suffer because of hand ful of these idiots.

    pradeep.

    DBSJ RESPONDS:

    Thanks Pradeep

    Yes.I too get diasppointed and disheartened at times by some of these comments.

    But there are a few things to take note of

    Firstly the comments posted here are only from a microscopic minority of our readers. Only a few comment but there is a silent majority out there. I think many dont comment because they are appalled by some of the commentators and prefer to maintain an aloof distance.

    Secondly as in politics and media an extremist, ultra – nationalist group hogs the megaphone. If one thinks these people are representative of our people I dont think that would be correct. The stupid, racist comments made by a few are not representative of our people on the whole.

    Thirdly despite some comments being of a poor quality there are others to compensate for it. The vast majority of readers who comment make very interesting points. Some are absolute gems

    So the conversation should continue

  49. I’m a second generation American of Malayalee origin. It was an enriching experience to read about the Justice Pary in this article. My grandfather was an active member of this party . Much appreciate your efforts to enlighten us Mr. Jeyaraj. Looking forward to the rest of the article

    Usha

  50. I write from Trichy in Tamil Nadu. My family has strong Dravidian political roots. You summarised Dravida history in a rather innovative way in this article. I am keenly expecting the continuation. I know it will be interesting

  51. The Sri Lankan Tamils are the fouth largest ethinic group in Sri Lanka, after Sinhala, muslims and up country tamils of Indian origin. What ever the solutions you dream of, do not forget that. As Canada has woked very hard for a state for Tamils, Toronto could be a ideal place.

    Aravinda, this article is about the roots of Tamil separatism in India not Sri Lanka………….DBSJ

  52. It was described as a “victory” of Sanskrit over Tamil,Aryan over Dravidian and Brahmin over non-Brahmin.

    Funnily enough Sanskrit was commonly used by Tamil Buddhists; there are Mahayana inscriptions in Sanskrit at Trincomalee, as Indrapala points out.

    Interesting how India survived the communal tensions Lanka didn’t. Nehru, Senayake and Bandaranaike were all of the same social background, yet Nehru seemed the only one who stuck to his principles. Possibly the fact that the Indians had to fight for their independence had something to do with it.

  53. Dear Jeyaraj

    I understand your frustration. My sincere apology for that. I was simply excited to know the answer. Thanks for the reply to my quaries.

  54. The anthropological and archaeological wisdom propounded by the Dravidian school of thought at that time was that a pre-Aryan Dravidian civilization had existed in India before Aryan invasion (This theory is strongly disputed now).

    There’s overwhelming evidence of Indo-European languages originating in Proto-Indo-European somewhere in Central Asia, maybe even as far east as Anatolia.

    The Indus Valley Civilization has inscriptions in a language not yet deciphered, but almost certainly not of Indo-European origin.

    The original theory was that after the collapse of the Indus Valley Civilization there was a massive invasion by Indo-European speakers from Central Asia. The problem with that is there is little archaeological evidence. The more common theory is one of a limited invasion, or simply the arrival of Indo-European speaking pastoralists, and a gradual language change in most of North India to Vedic (an Indo-European language).

    School’s still out on the invasion versus language change theory, as it is in Lanka (to Prakrit) and in England (to English). What nobody apart from a collection of Hindutva nuts take seriously is the theory that Indo-European languages originated in India, that the language of the Indus Valley Civilization was Indo-European, and that the spread of Indo-European was the result of an ‘out of India’ movement.

  55. comment 43 (Ranjan from toronto)

    Mr Ranjan,

    Had i said Mahawansa written in sinhala.Read carefully before comes to conclusions.

    May be for you Mahawansa written again in english and german.While living with western comforts, dont be a idiot. Love your country man.Because handfull of people like you, still we cant get out from colonial mindset.

    And i didnt say tamil is inferior language.Srilanka for every one who bron and live there.Does not matter who came first or who came second.

  56. Thanks DBS annai,

    if EV.Ramasamay and CN.Annadurai succeed to get a Land for Dravidians or Tamils in India..then the plight of eelam tamils will be different .

  57. India is the correct place for tamil self determination and a tamil national struggle…i am glad that they have finally realized that they wont be successful in sri lanka(sinhala country)

    but India too will respond to it with force..in the same way they responded to their problems in the north
    ======

    Sri Lanka is the country of the Sinhalese but it is NOT a Sinhala country alone.Sri Lanka is for all her people just as India is for all her people and not the Hindi speakers alone………DBSJ

  58. I do not know whether Devanampiya Tissa is a sinhalese or a Tamil, but the word devanampiya is clearly Tamil, Deva means God and Nampiya believed that is a person who believed in God. Why should a Sinhala King have a Tamil first Name,(Tissa is a common surname) .

  59. Sinhalese fanatics.
    Ayyo! Ayyo!
    Is it really that hard to understand that the Sinhalese language did not exist when Buddhism arrived in Sri Lanka?
    Why was the Mahavamsa written in Pali? Because Sinhalese language did not exist until AD times. In BC times there was no sinhala language.
    The Mahavamsa was written by a south Indian buddhist whom today is known as Mahanama.
    There were plenty of Tamil buddhists in Sri Lanka and even in India.
    The famous fathers of Zen Buddhism and martial arts in China was infact a tamil buddhist who travelled to China. His is known as Bodhidharma.
    The Buddha himself is argued to be a dark skinned dravidian type.
    I have examined so many faces of the buddha and he has afro type hair and a dravidian type of face. He certainly does not look like a thin faced Aryan.
    So who are the Sinhalese people? They are a mixture of various different people from India and Europe. This applies to tamils also but to a lesser extent.
    So there may be indeed some (i emphasise some) Sinhalese people whos ancestors were in Sri Lanka many thousands of years ago. BUT (and i emphasise but) they were not sinhalese and they were not buddhist either.
    Please use your common sense.
    Sinhala buddhism is the majority in Sri Lanka. But it is absurd to suggest that Hinduism and tamil culture is alien there. Absolute nonsense.
    The times of King Ellaaran was when Hinduism tried to recapture Sri Lanka from Buddhist take over. It was NOT the first arrival of Hinduism in Sri Lanka.
    The tamil Hindu King Ravanan existed eons before on the Island.
    Buddhism took over entirity of India once. And Adi Sankaracharya succeeded in getting Hinduism to retake the land. In Sri Lanka the buddhist take over remains. This does not mean it was the original religion or culture there.

  60. Dear DBSJ,

    I’m a regular reader of your informative, insighful articles as they explain several things about the LTTE and the conflict in Lanka.

    However, I’m extremely surprised and saddened that you say Ram, Cho and Subramaniyan Swamy are opposed only to the LTTE and not Tamils. That’s simply not true.

    Yes, it’s true that the shameless TN Congress fellows are against not just the LTTE but also Tamils and this includes rabidly anti-Tamil liars like E.V.K.S. Elangovan who lost the election by a large margin for his anti-Tamil lies. It’s also true for jokers like Kalaignar who is more interested in the spoils of power than Tamil or Tamils anywhere.

    However, the most rabidly vicious anti-Tamil people are the trio of Ram, Cho and Swamy. Cho and Swamy are practical nobodies and don’t even have an ounce of respect or credibility. But Ram is the most vicious of them all. Singlehandedly, he has turned a somewhat credible newspaper into a rag of lies, propaganda and false reporting. The paper was never about good journalism or publishing the truth as you would have known from your experience with it.

    In fact, Ram’s newspaper carries so many lies and false, biased reporting that can even put some of the biased Lankan newspapers to shame. Ask any aware person in India and you would learn that the paper you once worked for has turned into a bad joke. It’s not just about one issue like the conflict in Lanka. There is a limit to the extent any media can get away with outright lying.

    The Hindu newspaper’s circulation has declined badly in all its markets because of the continuous stream of lies, semitruths and deceit published by the pseudo communist rag. It is desperately trying to stay in the game by giving unbelievable space and content to corporate advertisers (shameless hypocrisy for a paper run by a pseudo communist marxist). It’s also funded by quite a few ‘under the table’ sources (within and outside India) and I’m very sure you are aware of this and who they are.

    You may be tempted not to publish this comment or edit it since it’s contrary to what you have been made to believe. But the times and the technology are changing rapidly in the 21 st century globalized world and newspapers are often the last resort for people to learn the ‘news’ from. In such a scenario, lies and propaganda gets exposed easily and the days of the ‘rag of lies’, that you once had the misfortune of working for, are numbered.

    Thanks and God Bless you.

    DBSJ RESPONDS:

    Dear Mr.Paul

    I am releasing your post in full not because I agree with you that this Brahmin trio is anti – Tamil but because of the patent sincerity of your belief even though I think you have misjudged. The tone of your comment has an honest ring about it that is absent in most anti – brahmin comments made by some commentators.

    I do not know Cho or Swamy personally but I do know Ram very well. I think it is quite wrong to call him anti – Tamil but as I said earlier he is certainly anti – LTTE. There are reasons for it. It is his strong antipathy towards the LTTE (shared by many at “The Hindu not just Ram)that has influenced the paper’s policy. Also “The Hindu” is concerned about the growth of ultra – Tamil nationalism and again they have their reasons for it

    But I do think that gradually “The Hindu” would resume articulating its support for the just demands of the Sri Lankan Tamils. I personally cannot forget the strong support it extended during the 1983 – 87 period and very much wish a return of that situation. Of course “The Hindu” would not support a seaparate Tamil state but it will certainly be supportive of the legitimate aspirations and grievances of Tamils. The paper will support devolution, Tamil language rights etc within a united Sri Lanka.

    This change cannot be brought about by vilification and crude personal attacks on the paper or its Editor. It can only be done through constant, constructive engagement. Vicious personal attacks and unfair denigration of Brahmins on the whole cannot be helpful

    This does not mean that I approve of “The Hindu”s recent stance on Sri Lanka. But I understand the underlying reasons and respect their right to take up the position.Personally I believe that we should encourage “The Hindu” to resume advocating its support for a just political settlement for the Tamils.

    The paper should also focus more critically on the Human rights violations , corruption, nepotism, stifling of dissent, anti – democratic activities etc of the Rajapakse regime. I belive such a stance is inevitable for an honourable institution like the “Mount road Mahavishnu”. The Editorial on Tissainayagam I believe is a straw in the wind.

    If you do wish to discuss this further and have further input I would appreciate your writing to me at dbsjeyaraj@yahoo.com.

    Thank you

    May God Bless you

  61. The texts were lost for centuries and were rediscovered in the late 1800s by the British and first translated to English and German.

    I don’t think there’s any question of it ever having been lost. We must remember that the second part of the Culavamsa goes up to 1815.

    The statement does seem rather like ‘Columbus discovered America in 1492’

  62. Since crazy idiots are shouting from all corners, I can’t keep my mouth shut.
    TO:
    6. Ranil jayasinghe
    15. KK
    45. Susantha
    Please stop being part of the problem and become a part of the solution. People like you are drawing this country in to a deep deep ditch. We defeated terrorism. Now lets move on for the sake of all people of this country. Tamils, Muslims & Other minorities are as much Sri Lankan as you and me. We all have same rights for this country. Those who do not think like that will eventually leave here so it is not a problem (Even now a lot of sinhala people are doing it ).

    None of us living now (DBSJ, myself, MR, my friend sitting next to me etc etc included) will ever be completely 100% racism free. (in my openion, it is a fine line between being nationalist/ proud of one’s heritage and bening racist) It is put into our heads even before we can read or write.

    But as intelligent humans we can stop it here. Why should our children carry the garbage we are carrying? Lets not pass on the ‘bad genes’ and start creating the solution.

    TO:
    9. makenthiran – I think you are an I–t talking nonesense. If not, prove it!

  63. Dear DBSJi,

    Excellent write up. I am living in Chennai and I know what you are saying is 100% true.

    The Indian system allowed the speeches of the leaders asking for a separate home land. But they also accomodated them within the constitution of India.

    Nehru gave an assurance that Hindi will not be imposed on the non hindi speaking people and again there are 18 (if I am right) official languages in India.

    The country was divided on the basis of language into many smaller states and the regional aspirations were given encouragement.

    I am not a Tamil. I live in Chennai without any fear. Our forefathers were from karnataka and Maharashtra.

    I am treated as any other Tamilian only. i am again a Bramin. I do not find any discrimination here in the cities.

    Now a days only if you go into the villages do you see any question regarding your caste comes up.

    The constitution says that any Indian can go to any part of the country and buy a property and live as a free person.

    So there are many Tamils living in Maharashtra, Karnataka, Delhi etc.

    The same constitution also prohibits people (people normally who do not belong to that region) from acquiring lands from J&K, Meghalaya etc. This protects the demography of that area.

    Indian constitution is a masterpiece.

    Again Indian constitution refers to the Reservation. This is giving power to the oppressed and deprived class. This is giving an oppurtunity to these classes.

    This is again a master stroke.

    I marvel at the genius of the law makers for even have thought in that manner.

    This has enabled the people from the deprived classes and castes to participate in the governance and has fomented a sense of participation and belonging.

    But India goes beyond this.

    The very spirit of India is accomodative.

    India is also a majoritarian country. Nearly 80% of the people to the Hinduism.

    There is no official religion for India. india is a socialistic, secular, republic.

    Renowned journalist M.J. Akbar would say, ‘India is secular not because of we minority people. We have a stake in it being secular’. ‘India is secular only because the majority Hindus wanted it to be that way’.

    The minorities also have their rights enshrined.

    There are minority commissions. They delve on the rights of the minorities.

    India is a big a diverse country. Some social tension crops up in the country now and then.

    The social tension is only in the society. The Government and the law are totally neutral. The law emphasizes the minorities right to live in peace as equal citizens.

    During the Bangladesh war the COAS Sam Manekshaw was a parsee. The Eastern Commander was a Sikh. His deputy was a Jew.

    Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Parsees have all risen to the top post in the civil and the military spheres.

    India is a mini Universe. EVerybody can and should study from it.

    I LOVE INDIA.

    MERA BHARAT MAHAN.

    Thank you very much for this Mahesh and I hope many Sri Lankans will read it………..DBSJ

  64. Mr DBS
    I do understand the reason for your article and what you trying to tell. by the meantime two of the the tamilnadu Brahmins were and are predominantly behind the behind the whole sri lankan tamil struggle. they wanted to safeguard the Brahmins dominancy in tamil nadu. they were so afraid that an independent tamil land in sri lanka may lead to non brahmins dominance in tamil nandu. they would find difficult to stir the whole tamilnadu through the north masters as they were doing during colonial time. foolish VP behave liked “theruchandian” than a leader who was leading a race for freedom in 21st century. failure for the tamil struggle was it became an LTTE fight than tamils fight. we started fight for singhalese chasing us from south and killing our people. but what did we do to muslims and singhalese. can any of LTTE sympathisers can give me an answer atleast now for chasing muslims from their homes. if take a simple leadership model you may you dream first, than make out a plan to implement and finally go for criticism before you implement. this Disney practiced and succeeded. poor VP was so illiterate to understand these or who was allowed to understand by the vultures around him. but still he believed that he will win tamil eelam. rather than buying some paper plane he could have bought some tanks stand against the moving army. did we have any other countries to openely support us or did we have any back plane. we did not fail not because wrong concept or goal of tamil eelam but because ruthless leadership and foolish tamil community which went behind them. not more than the sinhala chauvinism but to get away from corrupted thuggery sinhala
    leadership we need a separate country.

  65. The interesting thing to note in the story line is, a group had called for separatism from the other because of illtreatment and denial of equal rights. The history in this story also will tell us that people have survived and lived alongside for many years after, with dignity and witout much bloodshed.

    Probably DBS may relate in the next episode .

  66. Jeyaraj

    I read you regularly to know about Shri Lanka politics.

    Now I request you to write on Indian politics regularly .

  67. Good insight to the history of Tamilnadu.

    The main reason a military struggle for a separate homeland for Tamils in India did not take off because the politicians had the foresight to know that the central government would have crushed them in no time,the same way India did to the Punjabis.

    If India on the other hand did not actively armed,sheltered and provided protection to a brutal Terrorist group to fight against the Srilankan military, there would not have been an armed struggle for an Eelam. I am sure India has learned a lesson from its actions of the past and avoid such mis judgments in the future.

    Making Sinhala compulsory for the public service employees is the main discriminatory act sanctioned by the Government.However some may say that it was positive discrimination, for prior to its introduction, only the English educated, mainly Christian Tamils ,Sinhalese and Burghurs dominated all divisions of the Public service including the Defence Forces.

    Srilanka belongs to all who live, I mean live there.It does not matter.whether they have been there for two hundred or twenty thousand years.They, themselves should and I am sure they will work out the best way to rectify or improve any short comings moving forward.

    The others should avoid making ignoramus charges against each other and provide sensible and constructive ideas if any, to help the people in Srilanka.

  68. Thanks for your information. In india tamils no need for and indepentent country, they enjoy and mostly dominating in every areas of lifes in India. After three weeks in srilanka, i feel really sorry for the people live in there. Prices are very high, sorry for the poor souls in srilanka. Sinhalease are mostly very friendly, they misleaded by sinhala thug politicians.
    If tamils and sinhalease learn each others languages srilanka will be heaven on earth. Both communities must reject extremist politicians and work hard for united srilanka or country will be doomed.

  69. Dear DBS, as a response to a comment here you asked yourself whether the comment section was useful. I say it is very useful for it allows for people including the stupid one’s to make their points of view. Through this dialogue the people in the middle will understand both communities have their fools and extremist.

    I for one as a Tamil who was displaced by the 1983 riots can now see that many Sinhalese share my views on multi-ethnic solution to the Sri Lankan ethnic conflict. Both Tamils and Sinhalese have rich cultures that have been shaped by their history in Sri Lanka. It is time to accept that history and move on to build a new Sri Lankan identity that represents all communities.
    Keep the dialogue alive

  70. You seem to have missed one VERY important factor in the equation. This was the 1962 border war with China
    and the 1965 war with Pakistan. In both cases Chief
    Minister Annadurai found himself speaking to himself
    about an independent Tamil State. There was no popular
    support for an independent state, indeed, this was perceived by most Tamils as being TREASONABLE in
    the backdrop of these two wars which India fought. Perhaps, in Sri Lanka, the LTTE would NEVER had
    risen their heads if Sri Lanka had a shared external enemy!

    I haven’t completed the article and am yet to enter the post -Independence era………..DBSJ

  71. This article could not have been dictated to a steno sitting with a pen and papers by the maker. In one part the author should have the capacity how to stat he article with what. Not one word or a sentence can be challenged by even a best known historian either in India or United Kingdom or else where. Cogency amongst all the other things is appalling. Another thing every individual who came prominent in the process of formation of a state of Madras irrespective of the role he played either as a Brahmin, a non-Brahmin ,Hindu non-Hindu one who backed British Raj, believers of God or not etc is given a due coverage of his activities. I am only eager to read how the article ended

  72. DBSJ Thanks for a very informative article!
    But there were one or two inacurracies.
    Rajaji was the Prime Minister of Madras Presidency not the chief Minister. and that no legislation was introduced to make Hindi a compulsory language. But Hindi( or was it Hidustani?) was taught in the schools as a compulsory language. Mahatma Gandhi himself thought that all Indians should learn Hindustani and Mahatma is not a Brahmin.
    But Rajaji himself was later advocating a two language policy for Tamil Nadu similar to the stand of DMK.

    DBSJ RESPONDS:

    There are references to both Chief minister and Prime minister. But chief minister was used widely in popular usage

    I have stated initially that Hindi was made a compulsory subject in schools.It was in that context that I said “compulsory” later on and not compulsory as an administrative language

    When the order was made it was referred to as Hindi and as Hindustani.But Hindi was in popular usage But to Tamils it was Hindi Thinippu” (Hindi imposition)

    Rajaji began backtracking then itself after seeing the opposition. From being taught in all schools it was whittled down to 125 schools only. Then from being taught in all grades it was reduced to the first three grades. Then from being compulsory it became an elective subject (viruupu paadam)

    As for subsequent events I am yet to reach the post – Independence period. This is an article in progress

  73. You never fail to leave me in awe of your knowledge. I wish I have the same ability as you.

    Thank you for passing your knowledge. A great article. I have learned something new. Looking forward for the second part.

    Bless you!

  74. As pointed out by you, the tamil political parties who clamour for perpetuating the 69% reservation and argue vociferously against the exclusion of creamy layer, cry foul when it comes to reservations for the under previileged in Sri Lanka.

    The Justice party was for most part was dominated by landlords and other non brahmin elite and was not a grass roots organisation like the congress. It was only after independence that DK/DMK really became a mass movement. Also the “non Bramins” belonged to the middle castes and are ironically using the same caste system to opress the dalits in south tamil nadu.

    Brahmin domination before independence is a fact which has to be accepted. Even after 50 years of reservations, they have a considerable influence in the service sector and the corporate world though their political influence has waned,

    However,It is to the credit of DK and its offshoots that there have been no anti brahmin violence (physical) in tamil nadu howmuchever the brahmin elite may deride them.

    And to sri lankan friends both tamil and sinhalese- dont go too back far in history. Ultimately All of us will have to trace our ancestry to homo erectus in africa.

  75. I am a TamilBrahmin fromIndia.The article was very informative.Excellent job.I look forward to more such pieces from you.Please do not get disheartened by some of the comments.You are doing a great service by providing such insights.Ignore the irrelevant and insensitive comments .Eagerly look forward to your posts.

  76. Sir, your article is an eye opener for those who still don’t understand the whole concept how problems are created buy giving special treatment to one community and treat the other differently.

    If the government is for all people of the country ever subject should be treated alike and given the opportunity to serve and built the country united. By discriminating one because of the language one speaks of religion one practice will create problems which can not be resolved by building a big army or bring all sort of tough laws to cover up your own wrong doings.

    This will finally end up in two nation one language. Are we heading for this or you would like to built one united nation were the two major communities can co-exist. If Tamils are predominantly living in one region of the country and let them live with out any outside interference from the government. Don’t try to colonize the area with people from other areas.

    Do not change the demography of the province by your short sightedness. On a long run this will be a counter productive and again bring dissention and mistrust among the communities. Past history have ample proof that more problem are caused by this short sighted policy of the Sinhala rulers which ended up in wars, lost of human lives, miseries and destructions to the country and its people. In Sri Lanka we have two major communities living like brothers and sisters until short sighted politician for their greed for power and control sow the seeds of dissention.

    Now we have two ethnically divided races have different language, culture and interest. Why can’t the rulers understand this and allow the minority live in the areas they live now and continue do their own jobs and take care of themselves with out any outside interference from the politicians of the ruling click. Tamils are not asking anything more than to live in their own homeland with peace and dignity.

  77. 50. Saroj Wijesinghe | September 19th, 2009 at 2:34 am

    History should unite not divide people.
    ————————————————————————–
    That will only happen when the Sinhalese people as a whole learn to accept that:
    a) Buddhism arrived in Sri Lanka after Hinduism
    b) They are not a genetically separate and polarised race from tamil people.
    Accepting the above two points is not an easy thing for them. I have only met maybe 2 sinhalese out of hundreds who accept it.
    There is no reason why people cant live in harmony and stop talking about history.
    But the Sinhala mentality even in this 21st century is deeply rooted in the Mahavamsa. And their general attitude is influenced by it also.
    I am cutting straight to the core issue here.

  78. ஆண்டார் அடிமை மேலோர் கீழோர்
    என்பது மாறாதோ
    என்றொரு காலம் ஏங்கியதுண்டு
    இன்று கிடைத்தது பதில் ஒன்று

    யாரும் இன்று பேதம் சொன்னால்
    இரண்டு வருடம் ஜெயில் உண்டு

    கேள்வி பிறந்தது அன்று …………

  79. ஆண்டார் அடிமை மேலோர் கீழோர்
    என்பது மாறாதோ
    என்றொரு காலம் ஏங்கியதுண்டு
    இன்று கிடைத்தது பதில் ஒன்று

    யாரும் இன்று பேதம் சொன்னால்
    இரண்டு வருடம் ஜெயில் உண்டு

    கேள்வி பிறந்தது அன்று …………

  80. “Since Sinhalese form the numerical majority in the country there is a majoritarian mindset that claims hegemonistic ownership of the Island and places the numerical minorities at the bottom of the pecking order.”

    There’s quite a bit more to Sinhala nationalism than simple numbers. Actually this Sinhala “majoritarian” aspect is not very different from the “Tamil homeland” mentality based on the Tamil-speaking majority in the northeast- not sure if this had occurred to you.

    The real root and core of Sinhala nationalism is the immutable fact that nowhere else in the world is or has ever been a Sinhala civilization. Sri Lanka is a “Sinhala country” to the extent that in no other place has the Sinhala language and culture survived and thrived.

    A similar *fact* can be stated about Buddhism- Sri Lanka has the oldest continuing tradition of Buddhism in the world, and it is the only South Asian country with a significant Buddhist population to shape the national landscape. India may have been the original mother country of Buddhism, but aside from a handful of Tibetan refugees and scattering in Ladakh, Buddhism is non-existent there.

    Allow me to clarify my argument. We know that tens of thousands of Sri Lanka Tamils found sanctuary in southern India over the last 30 years of conflict. Conditions were extremely difficult there and often the Sri Lankans encountered hostility from the local Indian Tamils- but it was still an avenue of escape to a place where the same language was spoken.

    We all know that the LTTE although conceived in northern Sri Lanka had gestated in Tamil Nadu from 1980 to 1987. It may be true that there would have been no LTTE without Sinhala racism, but it is equally true that the LTTE would have been squashed in SL without a Tamil Nadu or other sanctuary (which is what happened this May).

    Now imagine that things were reversed and Sri Lanka had a Tamil majority and a Sinhala minority, and this Tamil majority had made the same mistakes that we made in this reality.

    Where could the Sinhalese have escaped to???

    Is there a “Sinhala Nadu” out there which would take us in and lobby its central government to intervene on our behalf??

    None of this obviously justifies mistreatment or violence against minorities. All the same, you’ll never be able to convince Sinhala people that Sri Lanka is not a “Sinhala country” as long as there are no other countries with Sinhalese. You CAN convince us that Sri Lanka is not *only* a Sinhala country, but not without ignoring the above immutable realities.

  81. Sam,

    “I know you believe in Mahavamsa or whatever that is. But everyone has their own ‘book’ and believes, so if we all want to fight based these ‘books’, it’s going to be a long fight.”

    Not really. DBS Jeyaraj published an article I had written how Tamil historical ‘books’ like the Yalpana-vaipava-malai had been influenced by the Mahavamsa, and how Tamil literature in turn had influenced the Mahavamsa. I can’t find the article but here it is on another website:

    http://www.asiantribune.com/index.php?q=node/6832

    “By the way, in America or Canada, they never say the country belong to Europeans or White since they came there first.”

    Two things jumped out:
    1) You clearly have not seen a lot of America or even Canada.
    2) The Mahavamsa itself states that Tamils came to Sri Lanka around the same time as the Sinhalese.

  82. DBS, great response to Tharaka’s comments #38:

    Aside from the Hindi agitation, the connection between Sri Lankan Tamil politics (pre-LTTE) and Indian “Dravidianism” is fairly weak. Tharaka made a good argument to show that Dravidianism had more in common with Sinhala nationalism, specifically the anti-Tamil aspect comparable with the anti-Brahmin aspect of Dravidianism.

    “The Dravidian parties who demanded a separate state to dislodge Brahmin dominance changed position when they gained political power through which they introduced affirmative legislation empowering non – Brahmins.”

    The Sri Lankan Tamil parties also shifted, from preserving the status quo power-sharing arrangement within the unitary state (Tamil Congress) towards separatism after the Tamils began losing their privileged position after 1956.

    “Likewise I found great empathy among Tamil Nadu brahmins for the Jaffna Tamil plight until the LTTE blundered by teaming up with the ultra – Tamil extremists of Tamil Nadu and began a vicious anti – Brahmin campaign”

    This is a very interesting point which reveals a great deal about the LTTE and its concept of Tamil nationalism that preceded it, as expressed by V. Navaratnam of the Suyatchi Kalagam. This ideology did not acknowledge the Tamils as a minority in Sri Lanka but as a nation superior to the non-Tamils. It is perfectly understandable that this ideology would look down on a minority in another land, in this case the Tamil Brahmins, in support of a non-Brahmin Tamil chauvinism.

  83. dbs

    comment 61 is not mine.maybe the person had my name on his computer in the comments section, and posted it without seeing it, i don’t know, nor do i care, because it is a decent comment.

    iam taking some time to comment, because i am still digesting your article, and unlike some who must have just glanced at it and are coming out with their pet theories on who came first to srilanka, i am carefully reading because tamilnadu and india is close to my heart, and i believe will be the deciding factors for srilaka’s future.
    sri lankans who think that they can dismiss this huge country of which we are like an appendage and can go flirting with far off countries like the west and china etc to solve or problems will find that they are living in fools paradise.

    thanks for at last keeping your promise on writing about tamilnadu, and as usual you do a well researched and greatly informative job. passing of knowledge i think is one of the greatest gifts of all to somebody, and i thank you from the bottomof my heart.

    will come back to the blog later after a few more reads of the article when time permits.

  84. Johns (#66), this is clearly off topic but I thought I should respond to your comment.

    The word I used is “rediscovered”. Starting from the fall of Polonnaruwa, Buddhism went into decline in Lanka. The important Buddhist texts and artifacts slowly disappeared from public as they were dispersed into various obscure temples all over the country for safe keeping. This was even more true in the times of Portuguese and the rest of the Colonial powers. Mahavansa texts had disappeared from public eyes for centuries when a bunch of enlightened British civil servants heard rumors of them and started looking for them in early 1800s. The British official George Turner was the first to translate them in to English, I think in 1837 and soon thereafter Giger translated them into German. Given the status of Buddhism at that time, I don’t think there were enough educated Buddhist priests to translate them in to Singhala directly. They were translated into Singhala only years later, I believe in very late 1880s or 1890s.

    So it is not a question of discovering something from new. It is rediscovering and making them available to public. If those British officers did not act to find them and to translate them into English, there was a very good chance that they would have been lost forever. That would have been a terrible loss not just for Singhalese but to India as well as Mahavansa was one of the principle documents that was used to uncover correlate a huge swath of Indian history as well.

    Lanka (#60) I am glad to see you write that Sri Lanka is for everyone who lives there regardless of who came first or last. That is how it should be and I hope everyone over there will eventually think that way. As for your other comment of me being in the West and not loving the country, let me remind you that staying in the country is not a prerequisite for loving it. I am sure you know that there are enough people who stay in the country and claim that they love the place while being the biggest crooks, thieves and robbing the country and the people blind. And you claim that because of me and a handful of other people, that Sri Lanka can not get out of colonial mindset? That is the classic case of shifting the blame to a bystander and washing your hands free, something that Sri Lankans are very adapt at. Remember independence was 60 years ago. There are two generations of Sri Lankans who have no firsthand knowledge of living under colonial powers. If that is not long enough to get your colonial mentality out of the way, that is really too bad.

    Sorry DBS, for being off topic.

  85. After reading most of the comments, it looks like some of our Sinhala brethren have got their tails really high up after
    the defeat of the LTTE. One must understand that whilst
    the defeat of the LTTE is great, everyone should make sure not to bring SL into a situation that another war is reapeated. The carrying on by some bloggers how Sinhala
    only army defeated LTTE does not help this cause.
    For a start these people should understand that there
    were/are always members from Malay, Muslim ,
    Burgher communites serving in the armed forces.
    There are many from the Tamil community serving in the Police force. Therefore, when someone say that the
    Sinhala Army defeated the LTTE you are alienating
    those people from other communites who are serving in the armed forces. That is something we can do without.

    It is very easy to carry on sitting behind a computer in your
    little room. But consider the human suffering that went
    on to defeat LTTE. Some short sighted politicians in the
    past brought us upon that human suffering. How many of our young Sri Lankan men and women are still suffering because of this war. If our so called silver tounged politicians had the foresight to avoid such a disaster, we wouldn’t have beeen in predicament today.

    I would like to make one simple request from those
    people who got their tails really high up in the air,
    “Please come down from that high horse, and be humble and modest.

    God bless all.

  86. I always wonder how Indian system survives in the multi language and multi ethnic environments. We should learn a lot from India. What Nehru did to India was remarkable. How the regional issues from Tamil Nadu and Bengal were tackled after 1948 was a good lesson to any peace loving Sri Lankans.

  87. Mr DBSJ

    the difference in india and sri lanka is…

    the majority of hindi people accept that “tamil nadu has a tamil identity”

    in sri lanka sinhalese people do not accept that any part of sri lanka has a tamil identity..so india is a country which can apply things like power sharing etc..

    I can prove to u with evidence from portugese,dutch and british archives that sri lanka is a sinhala country..dutch,portugese and british are a 3rd party ..they are neither sinhalese or tamil so there information should be unbiased

    il give u one strong evidence now please look at this site its from dutch national archives website it clearly says that elephant pass(jaffna) was the border between the kandyan kindom and the dutch colony
    and that this area was populated with sinhalese ..

    http://www.nationaalarchief.nl/AMH/detail.aspx?page=dpost&lang=en&id=682#tab2

    DBSJ RESPONDS:

    I hate to argue in confrontational tones with people like you (both Sinhala and Tamil) on this subject. If Sinhala hardliners like you cite a Dutch document, Tamil hardliners will cite the British Cleghorne minutes to prove their point. The territory south of elephant pass known as the Wanni was ruled by feudal chieftains who paid tribute at one time to the Kandyan king, at times to the Jaffna king, at times to the colonialists and at times asserted their independence.The important thing is not who the King was but who the inhabitants of the Wanni were. Just because the Telugu Nayakkars were ruling Kandy for some generations are we to say that the Kandyan kingdom was not Sinhala?

    A little learning is at times dangerous particularly when rabid chauvinists try to make intellectual arguments on the basis of flimsy “knowledge” to deny other people their rights.

    Sri Lanka is the country of the Sinhalese but it is not the EXCLUSIVE preserve of the Sinhalese alone. It is also the country of Sri Lankan Tamils and Muslims and Burghers and Up- Country Tamils and all people born and living here.

    Sri Lanka is not a mono – lingual, mono – ethnic , mono- religious, mono – cultural country. It is a multi – ethnic, multi- linguistic, multi – religious, multi -cultural country. Our strength is our diversity and plurality.

    Please dont describe your narrow – minded viewes as being THE Sinhala view. It is only A Sinhala view. Most Sinhala persons accept that Sri Lanka is NOT for the Sinhala people alone

    You cite some ancient Dutch document but what about the recent document signed on July 29th 1987 by a modern Sri Lankan elected President with the Indian premier?

    It says Sri Lanka is a MULTI – ETHNIC Nation and acknowledges the Northern and Eastern provinces as areas of HISTORIC HABITATION of the Tamils and Muslims.

    But no community has exclusive rights to the whole or parts of the country. Sri Lankans should live in any part of the country.Sri Lanka belongs to Sri Lankans or Sri Lankans belong to Sri Lanka

    Please stop making racist assertions here.

    Go get a life Susantha.

  88. Dear DBS,
    Thank you for providing us for this flatform to share our opinions. Even now every CM of Tamilnadu’s first announcement is “We will follow two language policy. first language is Tamil. the second is English.”This is the awareness Annathurai created and by the way empowered us (the Tamil people).In Eelam(north and East of Ceylon) Thanthai Selva achived this.GOSL is still appointing singala medium teachers to upcountry Tamil medium schools but cannot in the tamil medium school in the North and East of Srilanka!) In my view all the attempt made by subsigunt srilankan Government was to collappse Thanthai selva’s vision.once premadsa used VP for this purpose.For some of us use of Tamil all over the island may be dreaming to wear pattu verty (Silk dhoti).
    The Language right Thanthai Selva achived in the north east is like Kovanam.(under ware)
    I accepet this time GOSL achived some thing Millitaririly on Eelam.
    I beg GOSL and those people who this time accompanied the GOSL Plaese don’t ask us to remove our Kovanam.(Use of Tamil language in the North and East)

    Parathy

  89. Mr DBSJ

    “Sri Lanka is the country of the Sinhalese but it is not the EXCLUSIVE preserve of the Sinhalese alone. It is also the country of Sri Lankan Tamils and Muslims and Burghers and Up- Country Tamils and all people born and living here.”

    dear sir i 100% agree with this……i am surprised u r a tamil person and you say this i was only talking about the historical identity

    .. “Most Sinhala persons accept that Sri Lanka is NOT for the Sinhala people alone”

    it depends on what u mean..even I accept that all people who are born in SL have a right to live in SL and enjoy equal rights and privileges..but I strongly belive in preserving sri lanka’s sinhala identity..thereby sinhalese people have a right to every inch of sri lanka ….if majority of sinhalese accept that tamils have a right to north part of sri lanka in the same way tamils have a right to tamil nadu….I wonder why the present govt enjoys support of 80% of sinhalese

    “July 29th 1987 by a modern Sri Lankan elected President with the Indian premier? It says Sri Lanka is a MULTI – ETHNIC Nation and acknowledges the Northern and Eastern provinces as areas of HISTORIC HABITATION of the Tamils and Muslims.”

    actually the agreement said north and east are historic habitations of tamil and muslims and also of ALL sri lankan communities

    .. btw the SL president was forced to sign this document becuase he was helpless in front of indian aggression on SL..and non of Sri Lanka’s allies backed SL against India

    this illegal document was so despised by sri lankan people that the Sl govt had to call a curfew for 2 whole months at a stretch to sighn the document…

    and a rebellion led to the loos of almost 70000 lives..

    “The important thing is not who the King was but who the inhabitants of the Wanni were”

    also I can refer to the Coolbroke commision done in 1830s…as well as letters by many other British civil servants that Tamils were settled in large numbers in North and east

    the ducth document i posted earlier clearly says they were buddhists…and i think that buddhism was not followed by tamils during the 1600s..

    also the book written by the portugese priest Jos頍aria de E硠de Queir󳠣lealy says that sinhalese were present in jaffna….here are some photo shots from this book…

    http://www.sinhalaheritage.org/De_Queyroz.html

    “But no community has exclusive rights to the whole or parts of the country. Sri Lankans should live in any part of the country.Sri Lanka belongs to Sri Lankans or Sri Lankans belong to Sri Lanka”

    dear sir how great is to hear this from a tamil person..there are many Sinhalese who say that you are racist……….

    DBSJ RESPONDS:

    I just want to emphasise a few facts.

    I am an avid reader of History

    History is important for me to “analyse the past,understand the present and anticipate the future”.

    But I think our understanding of history too should be tempered with a humanitarian perspective. It should help people live in peace,amity and harmony rather than divide people through atavistic revival of the past.

    Take the Elara – Dutugemunu episode. Politicians and propagandists on both sides portray it as a “Sinhala – Tamil” fight. But there were Sinhalese fighting on Elara’s side and Tamils fighting on Gemunu’s side. Basically it was a clash for power with a younger aspirant challenging an older occupant of the throne or seat of power.

    In any case we learn of Kings and armies but what of the ordinary people? How did they fare? Having experienced war in modern Sri Lanka I dont think any common person suffering during war would have welcomed it. But we dont get to hear of their experiences through history. We only get to know of kings and dynasties and conquerors and conquered.

    Even during our recent war there were constant reports about areas captured or about areas where fighting was going on. But there was little mention about the civilians caught up in the war.

    Also the history we learn about conflict among powerful forces does not focus on the everyday life of ordinary, poweless people. Our people were living in all parts of Sri Lanka , mixing and marrying. The state of so called “Border” villages at the dawn of Independence would demonstrate the inter – relations between communities.We have co-existed and evolved and the sooner we learn to discard jingoist politics the better for all of us.

    Another point on history. It does not matter whho came first or who has a greater right to Sri Lanka. Even if the Tamils PROVED through history that they came first or that they have a greater right to Sri Lanka does that mean the Sinhala people have NO rights or lesser rights?Likewise if the Sinhalese PROVED through history that they came first or that they have a greater right to Sri Lanka does that mean the Tamils and Muslims have NO rights or lesser rights?

    The sad truth is that even after 61 years of independence we have not built a Sri Lankan nation.We are an archipelago of ethnicities and not an Island nation. Nation building cannot be done by war.Sri Lanka needs to re-invent itself as a NEW Nation on the basis of justice, equality and pluralism.

    Sri Lanka awaits its true tryst with destiny but sadly I do not think it will be during my lifetime.

  90. I think DBS is correct when he says the caste system was brought to India by the Arians. However the question of Brahmins tickles my imagination. I think the ruling family of India, the Nehru’s (Indira Gandhi’s dad) came from cashmere Brahmins while once the ruling family of Srilanka, the Bandaranayke’s also came from Brahmins according to a book written by Roland Dias Bandaranayke. He says Bandaranayaka origin was from Nilaperumal Pandarnayagam a Brahmin from India who came to SL and became the purohitha(advisor) to the Sinhalese king. Incidentally there were Bandaranayke’s in SL who had Neelaperumal in their surname until recent times.

    DBSJ RESPONDS:

    Don I did NOT say Aryans brought caste system to India. I was merely quoting a charge levelled against alleged Aryan invasion. But the accusation may be correct.

    And yes one of Bandaranaike’s ancestors was Nilapperumal but I am not sure whether he was Brahmin. Many “Sinhala” politicians barking at the minority communities have South Indian origins. There are whole castes whose origins are present day Tamil Nadu or Kerala. If the Sinhalese would suspend emotion and delve into their past analytically they would discover the unique process of Sinhalaisation that evolved in this land. Likewise the Tamils particularly those of Jaffna and Batticaloa would also find that many of their ancestors too were not pure Tamils. Similarly many Muslims will find that they too dont have direct ancestry to Arabia

  91. comment 93

    Dear dbsj ,

    I totally agree with you sir.Srilanka for every one.

    But why there is a ehnic probem.

    look
    sinhalese get free education
    tamils get free education

    tamils can live anywhere in srilanka
    sinhalese can live anywhere

    tamils work in gov sector
    same sinhalese do

    tamils can buy lands anywhere in srilanka

    They have voting right

    tamil is one of the state official language

    what else they need.I think they want pound of flesh it self.
    I am confused.

  92. Dear DBS,

    This in responce to UGK comment.

    He is putting forward one of the most aburd theory about Buddha. He doesnt know that buddhist never had a statue of Buddha for 200 years. In fact they had abstract symbols. It was by the Greeks who settled after Alexanders conquest in Gandara build the first buddha statue. The first statue looks more Greek than indian. Does that Budda a Greek?

    If he want to prove Dravidian links in Buddhism there more conclusive evidence. One of the two chief deciples of Buddha is Mugalan(Mougalyayan) is depicted in darker complexion is said to be of Dravidian origin.

  93. ***86*** Wijayapala

    Strutting your stuff aside, the inalienable rights of the minorities are immutable.

    Sinhala country for Sinhalese “stance” is permutable.

    So shall it be written. So shall it be done.

  94. Dear Mr. Jeyaraj again and again you are proving you are the best!

    A very interesting and excellent article. Unfortunately, rather than understanding the lesson we have to learn from South Indian secessionist movement, some Sinhalese are fighting for the ownership of Sri Lanka with scant regard for other communities. Please just think about how India managed to create that powerful “I am an Indian mindset” crossing the boarders of extreme Dravidianism and aggressive die hard Tamil nationalism. If we learn from that we Sri Lankans have a future, otherwise separation of the country is very possible, demise of VP is not the end of everything in Sri Lanka.

    Few points about Dravidian Movement in the South. It is true Dravidian concept broke the backbone of high caste Brahmins and their hold on the Hindus of South India but caste hierarchy still prevails in the Dravidian ( linguistically Tamil, Telugu, Malayalam, Kanadiga and Tulu) society, and now other high castes have taken the place of Brahmins. By way of attacking Brahmanism (high caste mentality), they attacked poor individual Brahmins unnecessarily who had nothing to do with Brahmanism. The Brahmanism was not only in the south, it was in the north India too. Wherever the Hindu society was the Brahmins had power (except Sri Lanka, where Vellala cast had the power and prestige). It is against this Brahmanism, Punjabis revolted and formed their own religion. Unfortunately, poor Brahmins did what the Hindu scriptures said. May be non Brahimin Tamils thought it was necessary at that time to break their power base to exclude Tamil Brahmins from Dravidians, but we should never forget that just because of terminology of non Dravidians, and Dravidians the Tamil Brahmins became less Tamil than non Brahmin Tamils. The fact is Tamil Brahmins were more Tamils than non Brahmin Tamils. Dravidian extremists, whether they like it or not, have to accept the fact that Tamil Brahmins are an integral part of Tamil Dravidian family. As Sri Chandrasekharendra Saraswati of Sri Kanchi Kamakoti Peetam once said Tamil Brahmins also are Dravidians, but unfortunately no one took note of it because Dravidian concept was and is an emotional sales tool for Tamil Nadu politicians and they wanted to have monopoly of Dravidian concept. They didn’t want to let Tamil Brahmins hijack the Dravidian concept. We should not forget the fact that Dravidian ideology is only for poor non Brahmin Tamils, but when It comes to those in power it becomes different. Mr. Karunanithi, Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu, the disciple of EVR & Anna was one of those who stood against Brahmins, but today his family has Tamil Iyankar connection. Not only him there are other Non Brahmin Tamil politicians with strong tie with Tamil Brahmin castes. Non Brahmin Tamils should not forget the contribution made by Brahmin Tamils to the Tamil culture. Mahakavi Subramanya Bharathiar, Senmangudi Srinivasa Iyar, Rukmani Arundel are some of the names come to my mind. Here are some renowned Tamil Brahmins Former Indian President Venkatraman, RK Narayan, Sir CP Ramaswamy Iyar, Sir CV Raman, Ramana Maharishi, MS Subbulakshmi, G. Parthasarathy, AP Venkateswaran, Visvanath Anand, Kamal Hasan, Gemini Ganeshan, Dr. Kamala Selvaraj, and Indra Noovi just a few names to mention.

  95. DBSJ,
    Interesting article with definition and substance.
    Your understanding is that brahmins had great empathy towards the Sri Lankan Tamil plight until Tamil secessionist movements in Sri Lanka began siding the ultra nationalists in Tamil Nadu, and I agree. However, in defense to the objectives of Tamil nationalists of Sri Lanka including Tamil Arasu Katchi, TULF and then the LTTE, they rather be with the trend setters (the growing dravidan identity) and at the time the megaphones of Tamil Nadu was greatly amplified by the Dravida movement. Whilst there are resounding similarities between the Brahmins and the Vellalas among Sri Lankan Tamils, enriched by education, wealth and class during British dominance, and being the privileged minority at the time, their political ideologies and reasoning were different as they were sitting on opposite ends of the bargain. The Brahmins were against secessionism period, whilst the Vs were very much for secessionism in post independence Sri Lanka. I see no benefit for the Tamil parties of the world war era to associate with the Brahmins when the Brahmins only constituted 4% of the Southern Indian mass unless you could state otherwise.

    It?s interesting to see the impact of the South Asian caste system which was a big player in race based politics in pre and post independence and to some extent even today. As for the Sri Lankan state is still controlled by the Sinahalese Govis only.

    DBSJ RESPONDS:

    The biggest worry in the power corridors of New Delhi was that secessionism in Sri Lanka would have a demonstration effect on Tamil Nadu where secessionist tendencies had subsided. The Tamil Brahmins were particularly concerned about a “dravidian separatist resurgence” that depicted Brahmins as alien invaders who had to weeded out of an “independent” state.

    Tamil Brahmins were sympathetic to the Tamil plight in Sri Lanka but were NOT in favour of a separate state. They wanted to help Tamils achieve full rights within a UNITED Lanka. this was in harmony with overall Indian policy towards Sri Lanka. “The Hindu” that gave a lot of support to Sri Lankan Tamils in 1983 – 87 (I was the Colombo correspondent 85 – 87)reflected this position

    But when Lankan Tamils linked up with Tamil Nadu ultra – nationalists regarded as the “lunatic fringe” who wanted Eelam to separate first and then follow it up with Tamil Nadu separation the Indian establishment was worried. As Tamil Nadu ultra- nationalist discourse gor rabidly anti – brahmin and found resonance in “eelam” Tamil discourse also the Brahmins got insecure and alienated

    It was foolish for the LTTE to associate itself with Tamil Nadu separatists and revive fears in India about Tamil Nadu separatism. You do not hope to get support from India for Eelam while intimidating it about a future scenario of Tamil Nadu separation

    The Brahmins are only a small group in numbers but their power and influence is great in India. By alienating the Brahmins and continuously attacking them in “eelam Tamil media” (this goes on even now in the Diaspora) the LTTE only placed this important segment in an adversarial stance

    The LTTE and other Sri Lankan Tamil ultra – nationalists

  96. Hi,

    I have a few questions for DBS.

    Regarding Brahmins obtaining high administrative posts, did the British favour them, or did the Brahmins just pass the civil service exams. And if so, why couldn’t the other casts just pass the exams. Were there Brahmin only schools that prepared them for these posts?

    Thanks,

    DBSJ RESPONDS:

    This requires another article . In short there was a combination of factors. Brahmins already had a knowledge – based tradition through Sanskrit. They adapted to colonialism early and took to education particularly English education in a big way. Some were propertied and rich so they could educate the children well. Since the numerically small Brahmins were socio – culturally at the top of the pecking order the British too found it more convenient to favour them as part of divide and rule tactics

    But there were many poor ,orthodox brahmins. Not every Brahmin was part of the elite. Also when you look at the history of many prominent Brahmins one finds they came from poor families and made it to the top through education many getting scholarships

    Prasad

  97. “The Tamil Nadu for Tamils demand was suspended before it could capture popular imagination. This was because Periyar and Anna did a volte-face and re-activated the Dravida Nadu state demand.”

    I think this was a huge mistake and the turning point.

  98. Such a good article. So rare these days to see an article like this. Look forward to the next part.

    DBS,

    1) there was a genetic study recently that showed that there was hardly anything seperating the Tamils and Sinhalas ethnically. If I can remember correctly, the DNA studies conducted by Stanford University in 2003 indicated that the Sinhala people are not descended from North Indian settlers but more so from local and South Indian origins. Can you throw some light on this?

    2) Btw, why dont you think of making your own video reports for these beautiful features that you do and put them on youtube. I think that will have immense value and its easier to favourite some one on youtube and have updates coming to the email ids.

    DBSJ RESPONDS:

    Thannks Sandeep.

    I have heard about this study but have not read it so far. If I do then I can comment

    As for your suggestions they are good but I dont think I have the time or resources to do that right now. This blog as well as http://www.transcurrents. com is a labour of love. Unlike some other websites we have no FUNDING from any source. I myself do other “writing” work to keep these sites going besides devoting much valuable time here that would generate financial remuneration if directed elsewhere. There is also much time,energy and finance required to gather information.

    I am also grateful to a close friend who gives of his time and energy to provide technical assistance for this

    Under these circumstances I am seriously thinking whether these efforts are serving any worthwhile purpose.

    What keeps me going however is the unprecedented support extended by readers. While some sites keep crowing about their “success” we dont. But the reader response has been so great that I continue only not to disappoint them.

    I find myself unable to get “time” to even blog (in the classical sense) about many things I want to write about.

    Against that backdrop I think it preferable to stick to writing for now and not venture into the audio- visual sphere directly

  99. I see many commented above praising the central government and it’s constitution as multi ethnic, language but still there are many suppressions of certain communities including Tamils. The way i see is indian politicians instead go progressive, they are going back wards. The reason for this is with many in ruling central governments have ulterior motives. India is not as rosy as many think. Some example here. The way I see, Central government do not want Tamil Nadu to succeed.

    Raja Raja Cholan history is hidden, The Tanjavur temple is biggest wonder of the world than Tajmahal which was built recently. But there was no prominence given to Tanjavur temple. One wonders why ??

    http://nakkeran.com/RajaRajacholan2002.htm

    Here is also another interesting blog I found which has lot of information about present day India.

    http://escapefromindia.wordpress.com/

  100. In response to 102. Mr Sanjiva,
    Sri Lankan state is not controlled by sinhala govi cast as you put it.
    Cast system has no place in modern Sri Lanka. Cast system in Sri Lanka has its origin with the trade people persued, as experties needed for trade was handed down from one generation to another day in day out from the time a child could learn. Now with the school system where anyone can learn anything and varied professions available cast system is dying a very fast death.

  101. Hi DBSj annaa,
    Your articles and the commendations are marvelous. Just wondering about your knowledge in politics. Please keep up your good work.

    Thanks,
    -Ganesh

  102. Brother DBS,

    Keep up the good work by exposing the racist,backward religion(sadly my mother still practices it) and the damage it has done to India’s unity. China doesn’t need weapons of mass destruction to distroy India, while India has a weapon self destruction. Hinduism of course!

  103. Tamil Brahmins as a whole are not represented by individuals like N. Ram, Cho, Subramaniam Swamy or Mani Shankar Aiyar.

    There is Justice V.R. Krishna Iyer, who has been pretty consistent in expressing solidarity with Tamils in Sri Lanka, though he has probably not been very active now in his old age.

    If I am not mistaken, A.P. Venkateswaran was forced out by Rajiv Gandhi , or resigned, at least partly because of his principled stand on the SL Tamil issue.

    A majority of the Tamil Brahmins–graduate students, professors and professionals–whom I have met in the US, were not sympathetic to even the demand for federalism in Sri lanka, let alone separation. It seems to me that they felt secure only within the bigger India and had a mental block against federalism. Many were downright ignorant of the causes that led to Tamil militancy and thought VP was the cause of all problems in Sri lanka. Some were ‘statists’ who couldn’t see anything wrong with the states. Some asked me, why would the Govt. kill people?

    I chalked up this to their having not experienced the brutality of terroristic states like Sri Lanka. In some instances, I detected more than a passing hint of caste superiority. So the issues are complex; though their opposition to VP was justified, their lack of any sympathy for the Tamil predicament in SL and in many instances their downright support to the terroristic SL state was inexcusable.

    One cannot explain away their social, political and humanitarian blindness by alluding to their fear of the LTTE’s collaboration with separatist anti-Brahminists in TN; nor is it right to conclude that criticism of many high profile Indian Brahmins emanates only from the LTTE and ultra-natiionalists among Tamils in Sri Lanka.

    In recent years, I myself have been particularly outraged by the manner in whicb The HIndu consistently reported one-sided news from the GoSL.

    Even more outrageous was Subramaniam Swamy’s dismissal of journalist Tissainayagm as a pro-LTTE journalist, implying that what he wrote justified the 20 year sentence he got. Such views are inexcusable, unforgivable and can be explained only by a certain blindness and hatred, some of that possibly rooted in casteism.

  104. Both DK and DMK took “hatred approach” towards Tamil Brahmins. Tamil Brahmins too considered themselves as Tamil. Large sections of Tamil Brahmin are poor and live on the income they get from the temples. Income they got from temples barely enough to meet their daily needs. However, DK and DMK never felt sorry for them. Their hatred policies towards “Brahmins” added further misery to their life.

    In the early 80s Sri Kanchi Kamakoti Peetam was very sympathetic to Sri Lankan Tamils. Whenever Indra Gandhi visits Tamilnadu, she always visits Sri Kanchi Kamakoti Peetam. It was Sri Kanchi Kamakoti Peetam who influenced her to help Sri Lankan Tamils.

    Sorry Maran, but I had to edit some paragraphs out. You willl understand I know……….DBSJ

  105. Eid Mubarak to all.. ………

    EDITED

    Have a nice time.

    DBSJ RESPONDS:

    Eid Mubarak

    Jamaldeen or whoever you are.

    You begin this post with pleasant greetings and end it with “have a nice time”. But in between you’ve made racist utterances in brotherly language that are in no way related to this topic. However troubled you may be I dont think you should unload your baggage in this forum. It is even more disgusting to see you follow up your initial “eid Mubarak” with this type of venom.

    Therefore I’ve deleted the comment almost in full. Sorry!

  106. DBS,
    Your article delves in to a belief I long held: Tamil separatism in Sri Lanka had deeper social, hostorical underpinnings than a mere struggle against Sinhala dominance. It had a lot to do with the caste-based feudal hierarchy that existed within the Tamil society and the historical oppression in India by the Brahmins.

    I think that is main reason why we so such a violent, uncompromising war againts Sinhalese by the separatist Tamils who saw Sinhalese to represent all that was wrong done against them.

  107. Dear Sir ….
    You are great I dont have words to express because I am poor in English.
    I want you to pls translate these articles and distribute….

    All these days who do not have english knowledge we were listening all bias news…

    Thank you.. May god bless you…Long live

  108. It is a pity that the debate among the readers has switched from Tamil separation in INDIA to Tamil separation in Ceylon.
    I have been doing some reading on Tamil History lately and your article has been a great opportunity to debate the topic.
    I was particularly impressed by Sumathi Ramaswamys book The Lost Land of Lemuria: Fabulous Geographies, Catastrophic Histories (http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0520244400/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link )
    Although the book is meant for a history researcher with high faculty, some of the notes and reference material quoted by Prof. Ramaswamy (http://fds.duke.edu/db/aas/history/faculty/sr76) are a fascinating read for any novice on Tamil History.
    The book clearly explains the emotional plight of Tamils and their attachment to the lost land (Kumari Kandam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumari_Kandam ) to the sea. The Tamil Sangam poets constantly refer to kadal koll(Tsunami!) for the lost of valuable Tamil literature works to the sea. According to Prof. Sumathi Ramasuwamy present day Tamils suffer from the labour of loss of this great land Kumari Nadu, from where they claim, all civilisations started (The cradle of Humankind).
    In fact, you only need to refer to the Tamil Nadu Governments School test books to see how proudly Tamils claim Kumari Nadu as their own.
    Genealogists have proved that Tamils were the first Indians who moved from Africa into the shores of Kerala. Please refer to the 2008 BBC documentary The Story of India by renowned historian Michael Woods http://www.pbs.org/thestoryofindia/ . This DVD is a must see for anyone interested in Tamil History, where the documentary maker clearly explains why Tamil civilisation is the only surviving classical civilisations of the world, as it was protected from the Aryan and Mogul invasions. The documentary claims Saivaism practiced by the Tamils is the ancient and purest form of Hinduism.
    With such history behind Tamils, I believe, the actions of Tamil Nadu political activist such as Periyar, Anna etc were correct to install the importance of Tamils in Tamil Nadu. This is not meant as a claim for secession from India but as means of proclaiming the rightful place of Tamil in Indian history. It is important to remember the concept of India, as a country, was created only by the British Raj and so much history existed prior to that.

  109. Dear DBSJ, you may not pulish my comment-let see you have the guts-Jamaldeen

    DBSJ RESPONDS:

    Your comment was deleted because it had absolutely nothing at all to do with the topic of this article. Not even a remote connection. Besides it spewed racist venom that was most inappropriate and unnecessary for this discussion. So most of it was edited out

    Also it does not require GUTS on my part to release your rant couched in fraternal language. It only requires judgement on my part to either release, not release or edit it.

    But it would certainly require GUTS on your part to post your so called “Comments” under your full name , address, e-mail etc

    Eid Mubarak

  110. I have been to Tamil Nadu recently; if I observe it now, I do not see a reason they will ask for a separate country;

    What a wonderful place; I cannot help but wondered what our politicians missed in SL; I was keeping on thinking why we (Tamils and Sinhalease) could not be as happy as Tamil Nadu Tamils;

  111. The Brahmins were against secessionism period, whilst the Vs were very much for secessionism in post independence Sri Lanka.

    The demand for secessionism didn’t really take off until the 70s in Lanka. The Tamils who populated the mid and higher reaches of the Civil Service had no desire to return to onion farming in Jaffna.

    It was only with the Sinhala only legislation being applied after Sirimavo’s 1962 ordinance, and the 1972 Constitution and the closing off of professional entry because of normalization, that the demand arose for a separate homeland.

  112. I was searching for article which would potray the birth of justice party and sessessionism in TN.DBS ur unbiased article is fine.Brahmins utilized their knowledge and social status for their social wellfair(Bharathi,Tamil thatha an exception).Non-brahmins were victimised but many brahmin leaders worked for upliftment of harijans. Tamils wanted to fight for independence but EVR never understood that and he brain-washed.If we was so concerned about tamils why he didn’t negotiate with national leaders? He spoke against Hinduism but Hindu temples are countries pride.There is conservatism and blind practices in all religions did he advocate that?He even cursed that Tamils cannot lead themselves and he only can fight for them.Anna is more wise than EVR and suspended separatism post 1965 and his desire to make tamils knowledgeable(Ex:insisting everyone to allocate study room in building houses instead of pooja room) and his social schemes made tamils from all sections to accept him excluding some hard-core Hindu fundamentalist.

  113. As long as all Srilankans realise that Srilanka should be shared eqaly, otherwise SLanka will be of two nations. So lets work on a way to keep Slanka one. We Slankas have become more mature with the problems that came & gone.

  114. My dear DBSJ,

    I like this article very much

    In Tamil Nadu ,Muslim people speak either Urdu or Tamil. Those speaking Tamil feel they are Tamil Muslims or Islamiyathamizhar.

    As Nagoor Haniffa sings

    “Islam engal vazhiyaahum. Inbathhamizh em mozhiyagum”

    That is why Muslims in Tamil Nadu are part and parcel of the Dravidian movement.

    That situation not in Sri Lanka. Here Muslims mother tongue is Tamil but they dont think they are Tamils. They think they are separate from Tamils

  115. dbs

    from what i can see periyar and anna got a bit greedy. they wanted the madras province and went for the dravidastate demand, because obviously it was a larger territory. they didn’t do what the people wanted but had their own agenda. they jolly well knew that the nontamils are not interested in this, but still went ahead. if they had concentrated on tamilnadu as a seperate state, instead of madras province, i suppose today there would have been a country for the tamils. not that iam unhappy, because i prefer the india today as it is. as for pakistan and bangladesh iam glad the hindus got rid of that, because it would have been a thundering headache having them with hindu india. now they are like failed states and their problems are strictly their problems.

    most of this is new to me and i had a hard time understanding, and had to read 3 times. i hope i have got it right and not blundered. it was a surprise for me that there was a secessionist movement there too. i think secessnist movements are emotionally driven stupidity, and the larger you are the stronger you will be to compete with the rest of the world. economic development shoud be always the number one priority and emotive issues should be put on the backburner.

  116. DBSJ

    I have followed your last two writings with interest. Thanks to you for your illuminating writings.

    Many of your readers seem to have missed the object lesson of your recent offering: That South Asia is littered with false artificial divisions, petty colonial resentments vexed to violent communal outbursts that spark and reinforce spirals of conflict.

    What I take from your most recent offering is that Sri Lanka’s own communal hatred is a identical counterpart to the tide of communal divisions flowing in India. Aryan vs Dravid, North vs South Hindi vs Tamil, Muslim vs Hindu all mirror Sinhala vs Tamil, Buddhist vs Hindu, North vs South. In many places these divisions go one step beyond merely mirroring, people astonishingly have bought INTO the same currency of false constructs. How many sinhalese reading this have had an idea told to them from the time they were seated on the knee that the sinhalese are Aryans descended from a band of North Indians, while the Tamils are Dravidians.

    In my grandmothers area of urban Sri Lanka there are people who have further confused Aryan to mean Sinhalese are a distant part of a far flung chosen race of fair skinned Europeans the Nazi prophesied of!

    It is dumbfounding that so many people miss the obvious, overarching point that Sri Lanka is an “archipelago of ethnicities” whose difficult history has failed to overcome the omnipresent communal mindset of South Asia generally. That is a indictment against both the systems of law in Sri Lanka, and the education system which has reinforced false mythologies.

    So it is left to to intellectuals like yourself to swim against the tide to challenge, illuminate, criticise, castigate, and face sanction and derision for it.

    “Few will have the greatness to bend history itself, but each of us can work to change a small portion of events, and in the total of all those acts will be written the history of this generation.”
    R. F Kennedy

    Thank you RSW. I wince at the term “intellectual” (this ain’t mock humility either) but am very grateful for the sentiments expressed. The quote from RFK is inspiring …………………DBSJ

  117. Dear DBS,

    Please do not publish comments which are totally irrelevant to the subject matter. There is a valuable piece of writing here to discuss on its own merits and the discerning readers are forced to waste their valuable time.
    Thanks.

  118. Nauffer: That’s because of the way things were in the early 20th century. Political life amongst Muslims were dominated by Urdu-speaking Muslims from Hyderabad and the Deccan. Tamil-speaking Muslims felt marginalised by Urdu-speakers, in much the same way that the middle castes felt marginalised by Brahmins. The result was that they were able to relate to Tamil nationalism very strongly – accepting a Tamil identity gave them the ability to assert themselves against those who kept them down.

    In Sri Lanka, on the other hand, things were very different. You didn’t have a dominant non-Tamil group of Muslims. Instead, the Tamil-speaking Muslims ended up having to fight against Tamil Velalas in order to get a political voice (in the form of independent representation on the Legislative Council). Their struggle to get a voice more or less forced them to assert their difference from other Tamils.

    It boils down to a rather important difference between Tamil nationalism in TN and SL in the mid 20th century. Tamil nationalism in TN in the mid 20th century was identified with the struggle of marginalised groups against the privileged. In Sri Lanka, it was at that time at least in part linked with the efforts of privileged Tamil groups to maintain their privilege. At least, that’s how I understand it. DBSJ will doubtless correct me if I’m wrong.

  119. 124. shankar | September 21st, 2009 at 12:42 pm
    “from what i can see periyar and anna got a bit greedy.”
    I think you are not talking of money or wealth aspects of it. If you intended so then you are totally wrong. Both lead a very frugal living and they did not leave anything substantial for their offsprings, adopted and otherwise. Periyar stopped shaving to save money and time. He collected money for the organization which is now being managed by Mr. Veeramany. When it comes CN, it is the same story. He even refused official furniture to his home, though it was a legal.
    If you think that they were greedy to ask for a larger area including Kerala, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka and Andra, instead of Tamil Nadu alone, then you are missing their time. There were quite a large section of Telugu and Malayalam speaking people in Madras at that time. Telugue people even asked for Madras as their state capital. Then Thrupathi temple was given to Andra and Tamil Nadu got Madras as their state capital. There were quite a large number of Tamils in Thirupathi at that time, not anymore. Even Velore is a mixed town, even now, for various reasons.
    Kerala, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka and Andra people were governed as a single unit and they wanted that unit to separate from India. It was a right thinking but Kerala, Karnataka and Andra were not very enthusiastic about it. One reason was that communists were very influential in Kerala and there could not have industries in Kerala as no one wanted to establish factories there for fear of strikes, popularly known as Samaram in Kerala. Periyar was angry with everythink inhuman went against established feudal system and other Justice party members were not ready for it. So the issue was confined to Tamil Nadu and the oratorial skills of Anna were so magnetic that he had a very high calibre cadres just below and he was happy with them, unlike Mr. Karunanithy. Panmollippulavar Appathurai, Chinthani Chitpi C. P Chitrarasu, Nedunchellian, Anpalakan, Kannathasan, Mathiyalakan,E.V.K Sampath, Nanchil Manokaran, Karunanithy, Irachellian and many more. All were equally talented and tendered their services free and glad to him. There was a small fracture in sixties but it was almost intact. Till 1969, this was the issue and with the demise of Anna in 1969, Karunanithy took over and it became a political survival with alliances. At that time another leader, Si Pa Aathithanaar realized that only Tamils are asking Thiravidanaadu and wanted to ask for Tamil Naadu. He was, however, not charismatic to carry people behind him. Now Seeman has taken that idea and starting a political iyyakam with the aim of Tamil Naadu. He said that non Tamils want to rule Tamils under the guise of Thiravida Naadu and we do want that. This is a new development.
    Easwaran
    Easwaran

  120. With respect to the comment No. 6 by one Ranil J. and reply by DBSJ, please note that there are idiots in every society. DBSJ need not give publicity to these idiotic ideas like Sri Lanka is for Sinhalese only. Most Sinhalese are wise eough to understand the minorities rightful place in the Sri Lankan society. DBSJ should keep the idiots well away from this blog.

  121. Another informative article DBSJ, eagerly waiting for the next instalment.

    Is Godwanaland and “Kumari kandam” are the same ??

    Can you please filter the comments when its irrelevant to the article. Its quite sickening to see the bickering…. “Verum Kudam Ollikum ” (Empty vessels makes the most sound)

    regards
    Saba

  122. to comment 128-k.easwaran

    now i can see why his beard was so long. thank god water was free, otherwise he would not have washed his ass or had a bath. thanks for clearing that one up.

    they were so primitive at that time i remember a joke. a foreigner was going in the train through the indian countryside when he noticed people defacating all over in the fields. he was disgusted and asked the indian next to him, “isn’t the primeminister doing anything about this” to which the indian replied” can you see that fellow squatting over there. he is the primeminister”.

    remember “morarji cola” the eccentric primeminister who was drinking his own urine and claiming it is the reason for his longetivity. fortunately he died before starting to experiment with his solid waste,

  123. to comment 8-wijeratna

    the original people of srilanka are kuveni’s mob whose descendents are the present day veddhas. so you can see how futile it is to claim ownership of land. i suggest it is irrelevant because we are all interlopers. if the sinhalese were the original inhabitants, then maybe there is a claim. but in this case you just drop this way of thinking, because you are only making an ass of yourself. are we to all go back to india and hand over the country to the veddhas. recently mahinda himself went and ate with them their traditional food. would he have done that if he did not respect them as the original inhabitants of the country. their numbers are so small today, it wasn’t for the votes he went and mingled with them. these are the little things that i like about mahinda. can you imagine the hoighty toighty JR or sirimavo with their walauwa mentality doing that.
    my advice to anybody is forget about the past and focus on the future. you can learn a few things from history but if you start focusing on it, you will go backwards. so that means you are a character who will be quite happy to move back to, let us say the 15th century, without motor vehicles, electricty television, computers, telephones etc, etc.

  124. Comment for #6 and to DBS.

    DBSJ,

    You are right that SL belong to all.
    In the same token, you, DBSJ need to tell that the so called “Tamil Homelands” DO NOT belong to Tamils only. It belongs to all Sri Lankans.

    DBSJ RESPONDS:

    When Sri Lanka belongs to all Sri Lankans the logical corollary of that would mean there can be no exclusive homelands for any ethnicity. So why this desire on your part to get me to state the obvious? Even the Indo – Lanka accord describes the North and East as areas of historic habitation of both the Tamils and Muslims. Moreover it says the Tamils and Muslims have been living there with other communities. Why dont you people stop this stupid nagging?

  125. 131. shankar | September 22nd, 2009 at 4:58 am
    “they were so primitive at that time i remember a joke. a foreigner was going in the train through the indian countryside when he noticed people defacating all over in the fields. he was disgusted and asked the indian next to him, “isn’t the primeminister doing anything about this” to which the indian replied” can you see that fellow squatting over there. he is the primeminister”.”

    This is a racist view. Nehru was the Prime Minister during the subject period. He thought and behaved like an English man. Even Lady Mount Batten was rumoured to have very intimate relationship with him. Lord Mount Batten asked his daughter to burn all the correspondences they, Nehru and Lady Mount Batten, had whe she died. He did not want to read those like a gentleman. Personally I have no high opinion of Nehru and this is not the forum for that. I would say two as a sample. One is, He did not make India confident to find a leader outside Nehru dynasty. The other one was that he could not bring up the down trodden to respectable level. That is why Periyar and Anna were able to make Congress a non player in Tamil Nadu.
    Easwaran

  126. 134. muaalai | September 22nd, 2009 at 11:33 pm
    Pavalareru Peruinchchithiranar worked tirelessly but he was a late comer and he was not even born when Justice Party and subsequently DK were formed. Like Periar had discussions with Jinna, Peruinchchithiranar had discussions with Punjabi activists. He died relatively early, like Anna, compared with other players. When he died even Pirabhakaran clandetinely sent his representives to pay homage to him.
    Easwaran

  127. Thanks for this informative article Jeyaraj. Nice to read about good leaders like Anna and Periyar.
    Today, Tamil nadu is in the hands of corrupt politicians. One of the reasons that DMK has such a strong hold in Tamilnadu is because of its Hindi opposition.

    Regarding Hindi in Tamil nadu – Anyone is free to teach and learn Hindi. They cannot do it by force. I studied in an English medium school in Tamil nadu with Hindi as my second language. The only reason I took Hindi was because my Dad. He had to go to northern states on business many times a year. An important qualification for his job was knowing Hindi. He understood the importance of Hindi in India outside of Tamil nadu during his time and made me learn Hindi. I did not benefit much from learning Hindi (except watching Bollywood movies – most of them are crappy). I really missed out on learning to read and write fluently in Tamil.

    DBSJ RESPONDS:

    It is indeed a pity that you missed out learning Tamil well Swathy. Still it’s not too late.

    As for Hindi and Hindi movies you do have the good fortune to understand the meaning of those wonderful songs of an earlier vintage. The ones that I saw with English – subtitles ,I liked the limited English words shown particularly the romantic & philosophical ones. To listen to them and know enough Hindi to understand the meaning in the original would be great

    But the Indian language I would love to learn well is Bengali

    Yes its sad that a crop of corrupt, nepotist politicos have taken over Tamil Nadu.

    Nowadays most students in TN want to learn English I think. When DMK wanted to make Tamil as compulsory medium of instruction the parents went to courts and got it stopped

    As for Tamil medium students I saw a film recently “Katrathu Thamizh” (Studied Tamil) that illustrated the way these students had been short changed in real life & how frustrated they were

    The Tamil leaders who spoke glowingly of Tamil as mediu m of instruction have all sent their children to convents & English medium schools

    As usual the poor , emotional, sincere ones were affected badly

  128. comment 135-easwaran

    okay, so to keep you happy, the joke continues like this

    “and do you know asked the indian, who is that woman squatting near him, thats lady mountbatten”.

  129. 138. shankar | September 23rd, 2009 at 7:47 pm
    Well this indicates your mind set and I leave it to the viewers.
    Easwaran

  130. Hi

    I’m a regular reader of Mr. Jeyaraj’s blogs and I’m extremely impressed with his deep and sound analysis. This too was one of that sort.

    There were a lot of comments about TN, Sri Lanka, the Tamils and Sinhalese etc. I know many of the comments are very emotional but I can understand that only recently the 30 yr war ended and so people are indeed strongly opinionated. They may discuss very strongly in this forum but I believe a majority will learn the right lessons from the analyses of Mr. Jeyaraj. I request Mr. Jeyaraj to continue the comments column to let a few good ones and ignore the extreme ones. Let them fight in this forum instead of a war.

    I believe the Dravidian movement in TN started as a political assertion of the Non-Brahmins and now they have a strong political base. But unfortanately, the Dalits haven’t been benefited. There are two Dalit leaders – Mr. Thirumavalavan and Dr. Krishnaswamy. The first one was an ex-DMK member. Such leaders wouldn’t have established if the Dravidian parties delivered social justice to the Tamil people. The BCs and OBCs have politically established well but definitely not the Dalits. That is the sad plight. Periyar and Anna weren’t selfish in an economic sense but yes, politically they were. They never promoted the Dalit leaders in their parties even though there were some members. MGR represented the political aspirations of the Dalits but it was more with his Cinema image. He promoted the 69% reservation in TN, when the Supreme Court of India wanted to cap the reservations to 50% The beneficiaries of 69% reservation are the BCs and to a less extent OBCs and certainly not the Dalits. It is definitely good that the BCs were benefited but the most needy were the Dalits.
    There were critical comments about Mr. Nehru. Just like any political leader, he is also undergoing critical analysis. I too disagree with some of his policies and actions but I believe he was a good political leader for India. But for his linguistic division of states, the various languages wouldn’t have had their political representation in India. He lived like an Englishman and it was his choice. But he did promote education and gave importance to Advanced education and Research Institutes etc. The result of it is the high level of English and Advanced education in India that even countries like US and UK are having a lot of Indians as IT Engineers, Doctors and Research fellows. My criticism of the Dravidian parties is that they never had the farsightedness of a leader like him. They wanted to protect the interests of Tamils, which is good but what more? Look at how Karnataka and Andhra are doing well in IT industry. TN too is doing well no doubt, but there is no reason to lag behind Karnataka and Andhra. There is no national leader from TN. I don’t count Mr. Karunanidhi and Ms. JJ as such. They are good regional leaders. The late Mr. Mooppanar was good though, and he was a Congress leader.

    I’m awaiting the 2nd part of Mr. Jeyaraj’s blog and then provide my comments.

    DBSJ RESPONDS:

    Thank you for this illuminating comment. The 2nd part will be delayed as I have to write on the 50th anniversary of the assassination of former Prime Minister SWRD Bandaranaike. It falls on Sep 26th. But I will definitely write the 2nd part next week. So sorry for delay. But please do respond in depth later

  131. to comment 7-ugk

    with regard to your references to a sunken land called kumarikandam if we can find that we can make a claim for a greater dravidanadu.
    land did not sink it just split into various parts and oceans formed inbetween. you can even now take a atlas or globe {preferabley somene else’s} mutilate it and start ftting it up like a jigsaw puzzle, and hey presto you have kumarikandam. personally i would prefer a night out with kumari without kandam coming along.
    eople at that time would have toght the land had sunk because they can’t see the other part that has drifted away.

    if you cut out madagascar you can perfectly fit it to the western coastline of india from kerala to bombay. this clearly shows that madagascar and india was one land. i am sure if we go to madagascar we will find dravidian cullture and ethnic ties. gem business is very lucrative there and i suggest you make a visit.

    now take the western side of madagascar and fit it to tanzania coastline. it is a perfect fit. so you are right. india was part of africa via madagascar. but india wont be directly connected to africa but a small part around karachi will be touching the coastline of somalia around the horn of africa. so we may have long lost brothers and sisters in somalia . another visit to make our claim of dravidanadu is justified. in case you are wondering why i am considering karachi as part of india the damn mughals took it from the aryan invaders, who took it from us. so we can make a claim for india, parts of pakistan, madagascar and somalia, which is the first stage of dravidanadu. also chuck in sri lanka, maldives and seychelles because these runts are too small anyway, and must have been part of india and madagascar.
    you are also right when you say a huge land mass would have covered the present day indian ocean. i dont know where you got your research from but you are spot on. the eastern coastline of india from tamilnadu to bengal is a perfect fit on northern antartica. and eastern antartica is a perfect fit to the southern coastline of australia. just south of perth right at the end there is a tiny hornlike structure which fits very well into bangladesh. so chuck in bangladesh and australia into dravidanadu. people might think we are greedy and selfish, so let them have antartica, which is huge second only in size to russia.

    this huge landmass as you say would have been covering the present day indian ocean, but did not sink, but just split up and moved away, and the indian ocean came inbetween them. madagascar would have broken off from tanzania, then india would have split from madagascar and drifted nortwards and attached it self to asia. that how the himalayas would have formed due to the impact.
    while india was drifting towards asia, antartica would have split off from it and drifted off to its present position and australia would have split from antartica and drifted northwards to its present position. this explains the aborogines who must be dravidians. must go and meet my aborogine brothers and sisters.

    now all this is okay, UGK my friend, but who is going to foot this bill for this globe which is not mine anyway. any chance of getting your address.

    ps. we don’t want the bhuddha. their must be give and take here. they can have him.

  132. with reference to my earlier comment see also how perfectly brazil also fits into western africas gulf of guinea. so south america also would have been attached to africa via brazil. and would have split off just like what happened on the oher side with india.

  133. Mr. Shanker #142, 141 etc,etc….

    Are you alright?

    I haven’t come across anyone else with so many absurd comments.

  134. to comment 143-sharma

    dear Mr.Sharma

    it is not my comments that you should dispute. it is the jigsaw puzzle that you must dispute. it is scientific proof. if you aryan and don’t like what i say, that does not mean iam wrong.

  135. DBSJ,
    This is to add some more info to your response to #137 swathy. Today, the educational scene in TN wrt learning tamil is really pathetic in urban areas. All cities (Chennai,Madurai,Ttiruchi,Kovai,Salem,Tirunelveli) and big towns (all district HQs and major taluk HQs) have countless matriculation schools with english as medium of instruction and hindi as the second language. This has resulted in a situation where the urban young population under the age of 30 does not know how to read or write in tamil. Of course, they all can speak in tamil as the language is spoken in their homes. I am not exaggerating. TN is perhaps the only state in India where the younger generation living in urban areas can’t read or write in their mother tongue. Most of my younger cousins and nephews and nieces fall into this category. This is the case with all my friends’ families as well. I too tried to tell them that it’s not too late to learn tamil but they don’t have the patience or the time to learn tamil now. Another interesting spin off of this is the circulation of tamil magazines. Today the readership of tamil mags like vikatan, kumudam, reporter, junior vikatan etc is predominantly made up of rural youth and persons above 30 in urban areas. This is the reason for many crappy articles in these mags without sound reasoning and research. Also, this time around, the SL tamil issue didn’t have much of an impact with school and college students in urban areas simply because many of them can’t read these mags which were feeding very emotive articles on the issue. Contrast this with 1983 when the response in TN was mainly led by student protests especially in Chennai. This time around, the chennai college/school youth hardly responded except for a forced human chain organized by the dmk govt where many school boys/girls were found standing as part of the chain without even knowing the cause for which they were standing.

    DBSJ RESPONDS:

    Thank you very much for this. I would really like to read up in full about how the education system in Tamil Nadu works right now. The DMK’s proud boast is the “Iru Mozhi thittam” (2 language) in schools as opposed to “Mummozhi thittam” (3 language)in other states.

    Correct me please if I’m wrong but it appears that other states are better off learning English, Hindi and their mother tongue while in T,Nadu urban areas kids are learning only English as 1st language & Hindi as 2nd languageinstead of Tamil.

    This reminds me of what Ma. Po. Si (MP Sivagnanam of Thamilarasu Kazhagham) told me in 1979 or 80 in Colombo when I interviewed him for “Virakesari”. MPS said “sinhala language is not enemy of Tamil language in Ilankai. Hindi is not enemy of Tamil in Tamil Nadu. Both of us face problem from English. Ultimately it will be English that undermines Tamil not Hindi or Sinhala.

  136. To: #140 – Giri

    Hi,

    I am not from TN and all what I know about TN politics and movements is by reading, and I have a question from you.

    You say that Andra and Karnataka are ahead in IT, but I understand TN also is doing very well in IT.

    Who is Shiv Nadar, some people describe him as India’s Bill Gates, and say he was one of the top billionaires picked by
    Forbes Magazine for years. However, some say he is not a Tamil, bur a Marathi from Delhi. Some say he is a Malaylee Nadar, Some say he is a Telugu Nadar. Some argue that he is a cousin of Actor Sarathkumar and therefore he is a Tamil Nadar. .

    I am so curious, could you please shed some light on this?

  137. Since some comments here are now talking about the Tamil language, I would like to add some comments to Diaspora kids that dont allocate enough time to learn Tamil language.

    One of my relative born in a western country is working as a medical doctor. His parents didnt encourage him to learn Tamil when he was very young. He got the best education and went to one of the top 10 medical school in the world. Funny thing is, once he graduated, the medical board in that country sent him to a hospital where considerable numbers of (Tamils) Diaspora are living in that neighborhood. My man is getting many new patients just because of his (Asian) last name. Every time some older patients speak in Tamil, my man freaks out. It is really hard for him to tell his people that he can not understand Tamil words very well. Now he is learning Tamil like Chinese doctors are learning Tamil words.

  138. Very beautiful article.

    Both Tamil brahmins and Tamils in SL faced the same discrimination after the british left.

    The discrimination of Tambrahms is mostly due to the bogus and phony claim of being “vandherigal” across kyber canal.

    As you rightly point out this theory is now under dispute.

    Recent research shows that N. Indians arrived in India around 40,000 years ago and not 2000-2500 years ago
    destroying Indus valley civilization.

    The rationalist as these periarites call themselves would atleast now use their rationalism not to discriminate the brahmins.

    The recent harvard DNA studies debunks this aryan-dravidian myth.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/india/Aryan-Dravidian-divide-a-myth-Study/articleshow/5053274.cms

  139. #130 Saba,

    Godwanaland is not kumari kandam. To your surprise
    Godwanaland is named after a place in madhya pradesh.

    Godwanaland was the land mass of Africa,India,S.America and Australia and the other land mass was luraisa (i dont remember the name right) consisted of N.america, Eruope and Asia.

    Kumari kandam or lemuria has been debunked by researchers. It is being hung on to only by Pan Tamilnationalists.

  140. Mr. DBSJ

    This debate is absolutely exciting. I love the great comments and let this also accommodate strong comments so long as it is not racist or extremist or vulgar. I believe you are continuing to achieve your mission of a healthy debate through your articles. Pl continue and I pray God to give you a long life, enough resources and good health to you.

    This is in response to # 146 Sakthi. Yes, Mr. Shiv Nadar a great entrepreneur and Chairman of HCL is from TN. I got this info from this link – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiv_Nadar. There are many more great Industrialists in TN – TVS, TTK, VGP, PGP etc. My criticism is about the Dravidian parties and not the TN Industrialists. Mr. MK has no big vision about Industrial growth in TN. Ms. JJ was slightly better. But I believe someone like N. Chandrababu Naidu in Andhra and Ramakrishna Hegde, SM. Krishna in Karnataka had the political visions for Industrial growth. My biggest blame is that the Dravidian parties never produced political visionaries – political, economical, etc. They protected the Tamil rights and improved the political aspirations of the Disadvantaged – the BCs and OBCs at the cost of Brahmins and Dalits. The previous political domination was supplanted by another group and the Dravidian leaders crow as having liberated all the Tamils. If they had done that, Mr. Thirumavalavan and Dr. Krishnaswamy wouldn’t have been fighting politically now.

    I do agree that English knowledge should not be learnt at the cost of Tamil, but learning in Tamil medium is going to be disadvantageous to the students. In my field I have come across many intelligent IT engineers not having the language skills encounter the disadvantage. The world business is in English. So what is wrong in becoming proficient in it. Yes, people should not forget or ignore the beauty and greatness of Tamil language. It is my opinion that the Mummozhi thittam (3 language formula) would have been better than the Irumozhi thittam (2 language formula).

  141. comment 150-krishnakumar

    you have omitted antartica. it is huge. if i remember right about 14000 sq.km, second only to russia which is17500 sq.km. at the moment only one or two scientists live there,due to the fact that it has drifted into a extremely cold climate zone,but at one time when india was a part of it there must have been quite a few inhabitants. can kumarikandam be referring to it? frankly now only i am knowing about this kumarikandam.

  142. If anyone lives in Canada, he/she must adapt to Canadian way of life, while keeping their own identity as an ethnic group. I believe that Tamils form Sri Lanka are either adapting to the Canadian way of life or looking for other greener pastures.

    The same way, Tamils and other groups should adapt to Sri Lankan ways and be patriot to Sri Lanka, and if anyone wants a land of Tamils, then they should emigrate to Tamil Nadu and make that country prosperous.

    So, I believe that mass murderer Prabakaran made a mistake by trying it out in Sri Lanka, and he would’ve got more help in tamil Nadu to breakaway from India, whereas most Tamil Nadu citizens are Tamils or Tamil speaking.

    What Prabakaran and his LTTE did was
    to eliminate the Sri Lankan Tamils dignity and kill as much as possible Tamils of good standing. He also made tamil children carry guns, and not go to school, also made Tamil women a suicide bomber material. I do hope the misguided Tamils living abroad learn a lesson that by killing one’s own people, an ethnic group would not succeed. Its about time the Tamils abroad think correctly when the go to their places of worship that they should start funding the IDPs, who were kept under the LTTE guns for so long. They should buy back their dignity!

    Every tamil in this world should consider coming to Tamil Nadu and helping it succeed, and by that way, they’d find their lost dignity!

  143. #152 shankar

    Shankar,

    The landmass Gondwana which included antarica(sorry i missed antartica earlier) also
    separated and india joined Asia, long long time ago (late-jurassic period) even before the human race evolved. So there was no possibility that such a land mass existed when human race evolved.

    The research done by CCMS and Harvard university
    has come to the conclusion that humans came to india from East africa 60,000 years ago through adaman and nicobar by sea route (not through any land bridge )

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/india/Aryan-Dravidian-divide-a-myth-Study/articleshow/5053274.cms

    Lemuria was a hypothesis proposed to explain the presence of lemurs in madagascar and india but later it was debunked.

    Tamil Nationalists in their attempt to glorify tamil people just stuck on to the lemurian concept even after the scientific community moved away from it.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemuria_(continent)#Kumari_Kandam_and_Lemuria

    Though Lemuria is no longer considered a valid scientific hypothesis, it has been adopted by writers involved in the occult, as well as some Tamil writers of India.

    The Lemuria/kumarikandam theory disappeared completely from conventional scientific consideration after the theories of plate tectonics and continental drift were accepted by the larger scientific community. According to the theory of plate tectonics (now the only accepted paradigm in geology), Madagascar and India were indeed once part of the same landmass (thus accounting for geological resemblances), but plate movement caused India to break away millions of years ago, and move to its present location. The original landmass broke apart – it did not sink beneath sea level.

  144. go home, Demala! and by ‘home’, I mean Wellwatte.

    Oh now “Wellawatte” is the homeland of Tamils?………DBSJ

  145. Recent research shows that N. Indians arrived in India around 40,000 years ago and not 2000-2500 years ago destroying Indus valley civilization.

    Obviously there must have been North Indians in India before the arrival of the Indo-Aryans, unless the Indus-Valley civilization was built by aliens or monkeys.

    If the Indo-Aryan migrants, who appear to have arrived after the collapse of the Indus Valley civilzation, were of the same genetic population as the original North Indian immigrants from 40,000 years ago then genetics actually goes nowhere to solving the problem of how great was the population of the migrating Indo-Aryans.

  146. dear dbs,
    i am an avid follower of your blog in fact i was worried when suddenly your blog did not post any thing after rendition of kp.i read your article about tamil seccessionist movement it was quite interesting.one of the reasons why it fizzled out was that it did not have the support of tamils.though dravidian leaders claimed that tamils were different from others and hence we should have a separate state it did not go well with tamil masses.last straw was indias defeat at the hands of china in 1962 it resulted in a draconion law which outlawed any seccessionist movements.annadurai was crowing from the house top that adainthal dravida nadu illavittal sudu kadu he changed tack and concentrated on coming to power in tamil nadu.one of the reasons why dmk came to power in 1960s was it had young leaders and its ideology was really a stunner.but once in power dmk slowly lost its ideology.moreover mgr split and formed his own party till his death it could not be defeated by dmk despite the fact that mgr was a malayali born in kandy and brought up in kumbakonam.nowadays tamil nadu politics is influenced more by indian rupee than ideology.gone are the days when tamil language was in the forefront now adays it is lip service.but personally one thing i silently cry despite me being a brahmin is for the lives of tamils in srilanka and the travails they are undergoing .another point i would like to tell is though reservations are here for nearly five decades i dont think non brahmins have made it big becoz of reservations.basically tamils whether brahmins or non brahmins are very intelligent and hard working.i always tell my friends that even without reservations non brahmins would have succeeded did reservations spawn people like arjun sithampalam,neelam tiruchelvam or anand kentish coomaraswamy.

  147. basically tamils whether brahmins or non brahmins are very intelligent and hard working.

    We cannot attribute intelligence to any race. It is just hardworking and exposure makes one intelligent not just because one belongs to a particular race or language or a country.

  148. Obviously there must have been North Indians in India before the arrival of the Indo-Aryans, unless the Indus-Valley civilization was built by aliens or monkeys.

    The general theory so far has been that the indus valley civilization was built by Dravidians and the indo – Aryans came and destroyed it and chased the dravidians to tamilnadu and to bangladesh. After destroying the Indus valley civilization these migrating aryans formed the population of north india.

    This is the whole crux of the genesis of dravidian parties . Their whole philosophy is based on the point that aryans or the north indians came to india only 2000-3000 years ago so they are not the original inhabitant of india and they have destroyed dravidian indus valley civilization.

    This new DNA studies by CCNA has exposed and debunked this myth that indo-aryans migrated to india only during the indus valley civilization.

    This now causes a hallowness in the very foundation of these dravidian parties.

  149. The general theory so far has been that the indus valley civilization was built by Dravidians and the indo – Aryans came and destroyed it and chased the dravidians to tamilnadu and to bangladesh. After destroying the Indus valley civilization these migrating aryans formed the population of north india.

    This has not been the general consensus for a long time. The collapse of the cities of the Indus Valley civilization was probably due to internal problems, and there were smaller Harrapan settlements until as late as 900 BC. There is no evidence of a violent invasion

    Indo-Aryan speakers appeared to have entered North India, probably through the Swat Valley, soon after the abandonment of the cities of the Indus Valley Civilization. How many we don’t know. What we do know is that Indo-Aryan speakers were definitely immigrants and not natives to the region.

    The paper in ‘Nature’ that came out yesterday seems effectively to have put to death the idea of a Dravidian North India being conquered by the Aryans. It postulates two main population groups, and Ancestral South Indian group, which arrived 65,000 years ago, and an Ancestral North Indian group which arrived 40,000 years ago. Both groups are of course now mixed in different proportions in most Indians, but it does make it less likely, though not impossible, that the whole of North India spoke a Dravidian language before the arrival of the Indo-Aryans. What they did speak is of course still a matter of great debate, possibly languages from the Munda group of the Austro-Asiatic family.

  150. 155. krishnakumar | September 26th, 2009 at 7:41 am,
    Tectonic plate movement time shall not be equated with lost land mass mentioned in Sangam literatures. These two time frames are completely disconnected.”.. Panmalai addukum Pakruli aarum..” as mentioned in the Sangam literatue is not the time as tectonic plates started separating. Some may over enthusiastically compare both. It is like comparing mile and light year to measure distances. Mount Himalaya is the youngest mountain in the world and the result of the slow but persistent collision of the Indian plate and the Asian plate and the Mount Himalaya is still growing taller. Kumarikandam is the vast land mass beyond the present Kumari Mavattam which was submerged about 10000years back at the end of the last ice age. Lakdives, Mall dives, British Indian Ocean islands beyond Maldives etc are one land mass as recent as 10000years ago. There were rain forests between present day Sri Lanka and India, suggesting rivers, mountains, valleys etc. It is not that land went down but water level rose by about 125m or so. Canadians got their great lakes also because of this ice age. In 2002 or so, British underwater exploring team found two sunken cities in India. One is off the coast of the Mahabalipuram and the other one is off the coast of Gujarat.From Pottuvil to Mullaitivu and Tamil Nadu coast were severly affected by the last sunami. However, Jaffna peninsula was not affected to that extent. North of Pointpedro(Tamil Nadu) was affected and South of Point Pedro(Mullaitivu, Batticaloa etc.) was affected. In between Pointpedro, Kankesanthurai, Myliddi etc was not affected. American Geological Organisation is investing this. There must be some higher ground there to deflect the sunami wave. There existed a land mass for sure about 10000years back. This did not disappear overnight. KADALKOLL should be considered to refer both Sunami which is recurrent and also the onetime, but protracted event during the end of iceage. Maldive people are very similar to Sri Lankans, any reason other than that we were one and the same group. They were Buddhist and coverted Islam later. Tamil Nadu was also under Buththam and Sammanam for considerable period. Kallappirar came to Tamil Nadu from North and did a lot of damage. Similarly another group, Mahans if I remember correct, came to Sri Lanka and plundered. They were not Tamils. Sinhalese know that but they started hating Tamils strongly after that. Tamil Nadu kings had a good habit that, in war, when the other party say that it doesn’t want to continue to fight then they do not go on killing the opponent. Then collect some money(Thirai) and possibly marry his daughter and make the opponent the king again but with the proviso that he should consider the other as the supreme. That is why the Chera, Chola and Pandya dynasties survived thousands of years. About 600 or 700years back war lords from North came and they did not adopt this concept. That is why all three,Chera, Chola and Pandya, vanished without a trace.
    Easwaran

  151. 161. Stephen Jones | September 26th, 2009 at 5:39 pm.
    This is my personal view and I would like to share it here. I think Tamils should not get excited about Indus Valley Civilization. That is too far and we would not have changed our skin colour so much so fast. I think we must be content with what Tholkaapiar says. “Vada Venkadam Then Kumary Aayiddaith Thamil Koorum Nallulagam”. However there are some nagging questions. There were some smaller languages(dialects) in those areas and they are more similar to Tamil than to Sanscript in those areas. Even Japanese language structure is similar to Tamil. We ask “iruka?” to ask is it there? It is same in Japanese. North Indian’s divine culture seems more with Sheperds(Lord Krishna) as with the Christians and jews.Cow is more simular to “Go”(cow), (Pitha, Father), (Matha, Mother),(thou, two) lmany more is like these. Too much similarity for comfort to calim from India alone. Sanscript is considered a divine language, same is with Arabic. Both Sanscript and Arabic have no ambiguities when formed in sentences. This is not from my knowledge of these languages but from two people one is a rabid hindu fanatic and the other is a pious muslim from Iran. I think Sanscript must be an imposed language, not an evovled lanuage. That is why it is no longer practiced by people. I am starying to far and let me stop here.
    Easwaran

  152. to comment 143-gautham sharma
    dear Mr.Sharma

    now i am alright again. i have come back to normal from my temporary period of insanity.

    please read, comment 155-krishnakumar’s “absurd comments”.

    what is more worrying, to me more than this gondwa or whatever is the cost of this cut-up globe. UGK of comment 7, you remind me of anton balasingham, and yogaratnam yogi, who took that indian reporter to jaffna and gave him a meal of vadai. they tried to persuade him to report that thenmuli rajaratnam assasinated rajiv on her own initiative, and ltte had nothing to do with it. when they found that he wasn’t buying it they told him to pay for the vadai and left.

    you will appreciate, if not for your comment i woudn’t have embarked on this project. so will send you my bank account number, please deposit 50 USD, which i can give to this teacher who loaned this globe to me.


  153. #162 Eawsaran.

    Kumarikandam is the vast land mass beyond the present Kumari Mavattam which was submerged about 10000years back at the end of the last ice age.


    This hypothesis of kumarikandam or lemuria has been debunked by scientists. They have said there was no kumarikandan or lemuria.

    Only pan tamail nationalists with hidden agenda of tamilian
    superiority over other races are hanging on to it.

    some land may have been submerged due to raising oceans but they are all some small mass of land like danushkodi submerging under the sea etc.,

    There is nothing to the extent of kumari kandam submerging under the sea.

    I am not comapring kumari kandam with plate tectonics.
    What i wrote was that one of the reader here had commented that Gondwana is kumari kandam and i said
    Gondwana is not kumari kandam but it is the land mass
    that existed before the plate tectonic movement.

    10000 years back there was no Sangam literature.

    Writing scripts were introduced only in and around 1AD or 1BC to Tamil.
    So there is no way sangam literature could capture this
    submerging of land 10000 years back.


  154. #161 Stephen Jones

    This has not been the general consensus for a long time. The collapse of the cities of the Indus Valley civilization was probably due to internal problems, and there were smaller Harrapan settlements until as late as 900 BC. There is no evidence of a violent invasion


    I think probably you are not much aware of the politics in Tamilnadu and the concensus among the
    left historians of India .

    They have so far debunked any theory which contradicts their opinion that dravidians were chased out of Indus valley civilization by the incoming aryans.

    Now this CCMA and hardvard study has given a genetic based approach to debunk the myth. We have to wait and see what this so called rationalist politicians of TN will do with this scientic study released last week.

  155. I think Sanscript must be an imposed language, not an evovled lanuage. That is why it is no longer practiced by people. I am starying to far and let me stop here.There are two theories on the relationship between Sanskrit and the varying Prakrits. The first is that the Prakrits evolved from Sanskrit (and such changes as the dropping of intervocalic double consonants, and even the replacement of all intervocalic consonants with a glottal stop do suggest that). The second is that the medieval Prakrits are just that – a transcription of Prakrit as spoken in medieval times – that Prakrits were the natural development from Vedic, and that Sanskrit was the lingua franca and official written language, much in the same way as Modern Standard Arabic is today for Arabic, or written French codified by the Académie is for spoken French.

    The reason Sanskrit is no longer spoken (if it ever was in the form codified by Panini) is simply the passage of time. Old English isn’t spoken now any more and is completely unintelligible to a modern English speaker.

  156. 165. krishnakumar | September 27th, 2009 at 7:54 am
    Drop of sea level by 125m would bring up fairly large extent of land mass. That is I believe. I quote a passage below.Quote”1. Ancient Cities in Tamil Nadu May Be Over 7,000 Years Old.
    CHENNAI, INDIA, January 5, 2003: A British marine archaeologist and author Graham Hancock has been examining a submerged city on the East Coast of Tamil Nadu. Mr. Hancock says a civilization thriving there may predate the Sumerian civilization of Mesopotamia in present-day Iraq and definitely existed before the Harappan civilization in India and Pakistan. He has been excavating the site off the coast of Poompuhar, near Nagapattinam, 400 km south of Chennai. At a meeting of the Mythic Society in Bangalore in early December, Mr. Hancock said underwater explorations in 2001 provided evidence that corroborated Tamil mythological stories of ancient floods. He said tidal waves of 400 feet or more could have swallowed this flourishing port city any time between 17,000 and 7,000 years ago, the date of the last Ice Age. The Gulf of Cambay was also submerged, taking with it evidence of early man’s migration. The populations Mr. Wells and Mr. Pitchappan (see previous article) mapped settled on India’s East Coast 50,000 to 35,000 years ago and developed into modern man. According to Hancock, “the Poompuhar underwater site could well provide evidence that it was the cradle of modern civilization.” Hancock’s theory is strengthened by findings of India’s National Institute of Oceanography (NIO), which has explored the site since the 1980s. Man-made structures like well rims, horseshoe-shaped building sites are some of the lost city’s secrets. At low tide, some brick structures from the Sangam era are still visible in places like Vanagiri. The region, archaeologists say, has been built over and over again through the ages and some of its past is now being revealed. Mr. Glenn Milne, a British geologist from Durham University, has confirmed Hancock’s theory.”
    I agree with you that Sangam literature is about 2000years od age. As we know them, Sangam period also remember some events took place before that. This has nothing to do with the Tamilian superiority. Another 10metre rise will innundate about 90% Jaffna peninsula. Area of Sri Lanka would also shring by about 20 to 30% as larger periphery is involved. Surely 125meter would expose quite a larger area. Like Indonesian islands stretching to Australia from Andaman Nicobar, this might have stretched far in some directions but as a narrow strip. My thinking is that this innundated area is known as Kumari Kandam, and it should be quite larger than the present day Tamil Nadu and Sri Lanka together. This is the scale and the extent.
    Easwaran

  157. i think the discussion seem to be going into land masses and indus valley civilisation instead of tamil seccessionist movement in tamil nadu from 1940s to 1960s.some one had mentioned about periyar not shaving his beard becoz of his stinginess but he never took bath daily and i dont think it was becoz of his stinginess may be he was a bit eccentric.all said and done periyar was a great leader he was stingy but he never used the money he saved for his own use rather he donated all the money he earned to the trust which now also exists.but one problem with dravidian movement for which he was a mentor was it tried to create a new cultural identity which would not have survived for a long time.it is quite obvious now if u go across tamil nadu u can hardly find tamil names for new born every one is having a sanskritised names.a religious identity cant be created as a countervailing force becoz creating religion in this brave new world is virutally impossible.once atheism was a must for any tamil politician whereas politicians now openly where religion on their sleeves.dbs wrote that tamil brahmins stopped supporting ltte becoz they cozied up to ultra tamil nationalist i dont think tamil brahmins support would have made any difference they are irrelevant or rather insignificant one thing which really made my heads turn was that tamil tigers began to dorn pure tamil names taking cue from ultra tamil nationalists.one has to realise that these very ultra tamil nationalists did not come to their rescue despite being in a position to help them.

  158. # 140 Dear kumar & DBSJ,
    It is true the clamour for English medium and avoiding Tamil even as a subject is a matter of concern. But certain more visible high profile and voiceiferous sections creates a unproportionate picture. Seeing numbers instead of the perception will be a better way.In the last accademic year about 1 lakh (100,000) students passed School leaving certificates in Metriculation, CBSE and few other few available streams where as the number of students passed from Tmailnadu State Board stream were about 10 lakhs (1,000,000). Considering the Non Tamil population in Tamilnadu and the mobility of Tamils themself we can understand that there will be always a considerable section which opts for other streams. In the last 12 years i have lived in 4 different countries. I can easily find a school with CBSE stream but very difficult to find a school withTamilnadu Board stream. I have no choice. My children learned Tamil from Tamil Sangams. ( They are using it to read cinema gossip only but that is a different issue).
    Tamilnadu’s educational achievements is not very bad. The Chennai region is alwayas if not most of the time has given the best results in CBSE. Earlier number of students who crack IAS(Indian Administrative Services) used to be very high compared to the national average. But in between IAS became less popular. But last few years of IAS results are also not bad. In 2009 out of 791, about 90 are from Tamilnadu. In 2006 46 out of 425 are from Tamilnadu.
    More than all these the disparity between various castes is largely reduced. In last several years the Percentage of Backward classes & Dalits in the open category in medical and Engineering admissions is about 90%. Please note in this category there is no reservation and admission is only based on Merit. Please note in 1920s the percentage of Bramins (3.5% in population) used to hog about 95%. Tamilnadu has come a long way.
    Please note today all the Urudu speking Muslims, almost all Telugu, Kannada and malayalam speaking people (except Bramins) are covered by reservation. Tamil Bramins, Saiva vellalas and Chettiars are excluded from reservation. Now and then there are murmurs among the ‘Forward Communities’ but the reservation scheme is a huge success. To day the cutoff marks between the Open competition seats and the seats reserved for Backward classes is a miniscule and is narrowing. Even a first generation Dalit student has to score more than 95% in 12 th standard to get the socalled reserved seat. They are scoring it! This is the scenario in all 4 southern states. This is not the case in north. Many many seats reserved for Dalits (S.C& S.T communities) are vaccant as qualified candidates are not available. About 30000 central government vacancies reserved for Backward Classes are vaccant as qualified candidates are not available. Compare the situation in Tamilnadu in particular and south in general. This is the achievment Dravidian Movement in the sphere of education.

    In the industrial development, agricultural productivity, family planning( birth control), functioning of Public Distribution System, Literacy, absense of communal riots (comparitively) you name it in every sphere, the record is better and the stamp of dravidian movement is indelliably there but largely not pointed out rather consealed by the national media.
    Some friends in this blog in their comments are advising us the Tamils of Tamilnadu to fight for our own land. Don’t we have it already. We can do better. But that can be said about any community and any nationality at any point of time.Today the sucess story of Tamilnadu is being replicated in the North in UP by Mayawati/Mulayam in Bihar Lalu, Nitish Kumar etc.
    The venom poured on Dravidian movement can be easily understood.Ofcourse the current degenration of Dravidian Parties are important reason but that alone is not the reason. The great levelling exercise of Dravidian and Tamil politics, despite all the bad aspects have benefitted a vast majority but angered a well entrenched minority.Their anger is not only about what happened in Tamilnadu but the potential of this being an attractive example in pan Indian scale. Tamils and dravidian have asserted not only in these aspects but also in Linguitic and cultural idendity issues.
    It is not because of sessionist scare the Tamil politics is being seen with suspicion by people like Cho Ramaswamy, Subramaniam Swamy and N.Ram. Reason are much more deeper and darker. LTTE or no LTTE this process would still happened. N.Ram’s case is very unfortunate and disapponiting
    —–

    DBSJ RESPONDS:

    Dear Rajan
    Thank you very much for this input. Where and how can I read about the prevailing educational system?India in general and Tamil Nadu in particular?

    Thanks

  159. UGK

    dear UGK, thanks mate for your money. i was surpised you had deposited USD 50 in my bank account. i never thought you will be so prompt.

    i returned the pieces to the teacher. she was livid, but when i gave her your 50 dollars she was very happy. thanks again, mate, you are a real good bloke.

  160. to comment 155-krishnakumar.

    i had a bit of a think when you said that human race evolved after the breakup of gondwana.

    now when it comes to, when did the human race start, we have only some skeletans to go by and we assume that it started from the age of that skeletan. for example they found the skeletan lucy , that was the oldest in africa, and assumption is human race started at that point in africa. recently there was a lot of excitement when australian scientists found skeletans in papua that predated lucy. but other scientists said that though the skulls resembled human the body was small and more like the four legged variety.what if we have not found other skeletans and we never will. the earlier the skeletons are the chances of finding them intact are nil.

    and what about darwins theory of evolution. he says we all evolved from apes. 98 percent of orangutans and chimpanzee’s DNA, tally with human DNA

    so keep a open mind on this matter of when the human race started, and in fact were we human at all earlier.

    i am quite comfortable in claiming gondwana, or kumarikandam for dravidanadu even if only dravidian apes were there before it split up.

  161. Comments #149 & 160 of Krishnakumar:

    This is a classic case of ‘kettle calling the pot as Black”. The dravidian movement had its genesis in the opposition to the aparthied like caste system preached and practiced by Braminical Hinduism. It is the braminism which preached that Bramins are from the head etc..

    Linguistic scholars like Cauldwell and others established that dravidian languages are a distinct, indeependent and indigeneous language family and they have not branched out of Sanscrit as it was posed by the Braminical scholars ( The Deva Basha Vis a Vis the Netsha Basha). Linguistic and cultural idendity was the basis.

    Genetics as the basis of Dravidian politics? I wonder which Dravidian leader spoke about this?

    The nature article says… These genomic analyses revealed two ancestral populations. “Different Indian groups have inherited forty to eighty percent of their ancestry from a population that we call the Ancestral North Indians who are related to western Eurasians, and the rest from the Ancestral South Indians, who are not related to any group outside India,” said co-author David Reich.

    Please read this in conjunction with the research findings of Spencer Wells and his team explained in his popular book “Journey of Man” and the research findings of Bryan Sykes explained in his popular book “ Seven Daughters of Eve”. Spencer Wells research and writing is based on Y Chromosome where as Bryan Sykes research is based on the mitochondria but both the research findings are agreeing with each other surprisingly. It is established now that the entire humanity evolved and migrated from Western Africa.The migration into India happened thrice. First one from South about 60000 years ago, second from the North about 40000 years ago and the third about 3000 years ago. The mutant marker carried by Dravidian Language speaking people are absent in Aryan Language speaking people. The mutant marker carried by Aryan Language speaking people are shared by Centaral Asians and Iranians and the mutation seems to have happened roughly before the third migration. The genetic evidence do prove what is being speculated and hypothised by the linguistic and epigraphical scholars like Iravadam Mahadevan, Asko Parpola and others.Mounting evidence indicate the Sindhu Civilisation to be pre Aryan and most probably Dravidian.

    Well this does not mean we need to perpetuate the divide. But trying to ascribe to the leaders what they havenot said and portraying them as foolish bigots will not help the cementing which seems to be happening many years.

  162. some one had mentioned about periyar not shaving his beard becoz of his stinginess but he never took bath daily and i dont think it was becoz of his stinginess may be he was a bit eccentric.

    periyar was really a stingy guy. When karunanidhi used to work for him when karunanidhi was in his late teens or early 20s, periyar used to scold karunanidhi for taking bath daily and wasting money on soap !!!


  163. Mounting evidence indicate the Sindhu Civilisation to be pre Aryan and most probably Dravidian.

    Be open , mounting evidence point to the contrary. Indus civilisation is not pre- Aryan and also not by dravidian.

    There has been a systemic misiinformation by DMK ,DK and some left leaning pseudo-intellects.

    The DNA proves that 80% of the indians share the genetics from the north indian group and the south indian group migrated before 40K – 60K.

    This is the truth please dont turn a blind eye to suit your ego.


  164. Mounting evidence indicate the Sindhu Civilisation to be pre Aryan and most probably Dravidian.

    Be open , mounting evidence point to the contrary. Indus civilisation is not pre- Aryan and also not by dravidian.

    Even if it is the case then Tamil nadu tamilians also cannot claim TN as their home probably they should go
    to pakistan!!! just like these pseudo DMK secularists say on to brahmins.

    The DNA research article do not point to any place that there was a big migration 3000 years ago. Can you point it out anywhere in the article. This is completely a hallucination perpetuated on to the masses by narrow minded politicians of TN.

    The DNA study proves that 80% of the indians share the genetics from the north indian group and the south indian group migrated before 40K – 60K. There is no evidence of mass migration about 3K years destroying the Indus valley civilization.

    This is the truth please dont turn a blind eye to suit your ego.

  165. DBSJ,

    Sorry for the late response. #170 Rajan is going off on a tangent about entrance to univ education and the success of reservation policy in southern india etc. However, he is correct in the number of people sitting in other boards vs tamil nadu state board. But my point was about the urban students. I did say that it’s the urban students that clamor for english education and not the rural mass. Considering that 65% of TN still lives in rural areas his numbers should not be surprising. But what is to be noted is the quality of education.

    Now, let me come to your query, DBSJ. There are four boards of education in TN, namely TN State Board, CBSE (Central Board of Secondary Education), Matriculation and Oriental Boards. There are also a few residential schools that follow the ICSE (Indian Certificate of Secondary Education, adapted to the GCSE pattern) but that’s only for the super rich kids. Of these four main boards, the TN state board has the max number of schools, with all of them offering tamil medium education (and english as second language). There are two types of schools under the state board, a) govt schools and b) govt aided private schools. In the latter category, salary of the teaching staff is paid by the govt while infrastructure is managed by the private party. In all these aided schools one or two sections in every grade is taught in english and the rest follow tamil medium. Nowadays, I am told that in many of the well established aided schools the english medium sections number two in every grade and the tamil medium sections have been cut down to maximum three. When I was in school, one section would be english medium and four sections in tamil medium. Now it’s nearly 2 and 2 or 2 and 3. In the case of govt schools, in urban areas, every grade has one section english medium and 4 or 5 sections in tamil medium. When I was in school, except in big cities, govt schools in all other areas had only tamil medium classes. Now almost all urban and semi urban area govt schools have one english medium section in every grade.

    Next, the CBSC board is managed by the central govt and is primarily aimed at central govt officials that get transferred all across India. But over the years, since the quality of the state board education is not up to par, many private CBSE schools have come up in TN and especially in Chennai, Madurai and Kovai their numbers have doubled in the last 15 years. Among the 4 boards, the CBSE is clearly at the top in terms of quality and syllabus. In CBSE, up to grade 8 they follow a three language policy ie medium of instruction (english), second language (hindi) and a third language, usually the language of the state in which the school is located. When it comes to TN, you would normally expect the third language to be tamil. But, sadly, that’s not the case in most CBSE schools in TN. Most of them offer sanskrit as the third language and the students lap it up since sanskrit is much easier to score. Btw, this third language is optional.

    Then comes matriculation schools where the medium of instruction is english and the second language is hindi (95% cases). There are a few matric schools that offer tamil as the second language but they are a rarity.

    The fourth one is the oriental school where the medium of instruction is english and the second language is sanskrit.

    Now, the distinction between these boards comes out in the higher secondary (+2, grades 11 and 12) state. The matric and oriental boards do not offer syllabus after 10. All matric and oriental schools follow state board for +2. So, they continue with medium of instruction as english. For the state board and matric students the second language in +2 level could be any one of tamil, hindi, sanskrit and french. Most city schools offer these varities and schools in other urban and semi-urban areas offer only tamil and hindi. The funny thing is, even those TN state board students who studied tamil as second language up to grade 10 switches to sanskrit or french in +2 as the level of these languages is very elementary even at this stage and students simply score marks without any effort. Of course, as I said this luxury is available only to city students. When I did +2, six of my classmates had french as their second language but i would imagine today the number would be 15 or 20. Oriental schools always have sanskrit as second language as they have no option, otherwise they would lose their oriental status.

    Now let me touch upon the quality of education. The quality of education of the TN state board has never been good to start with. The +2 system was introduced in the year 1978 in TN and they say the first two years (78-79,79-80) did have a very good syllabus. But they revised the syllabus in 1980 as many rural students complained of a heavy load and from then on though periodically the contents are revised and new materials added and old deleted the quality has not been regained so far. Add to this, the college education scene. All over India, professional education (engineering, medicine, law and agriculture) are offered only in english and this puts all those students that had their medium of instruction as tamil at the school level at a disadvantage and many of them struggle in professional education. What does this indicate? English, as second language, is not taught properly in most schools and that results in students struggling even to understand the text in engineering subjects.
    Rajan can wax eloquent on TN’s achievements but he would not tell you that all these achievements are mostly by english medium educated students. IAS is an exception because one can take her/is IAS exam in tamil. He cleverly says he had no choice but to send his children to CBSE and in the same breath says 10 lakhs appeared under state board. Ask him how many of them fared as good as his children. This is like the TN politicians talking about tamil and sending their children to Church park presentation convent (both stalin and kani mozhi were educated in church park).

    DBSJ RESPONDS:

    Thank you Kumar for this detailed response. One more doubt.
    What was the issue of compulsory Tamil medium that kalaingar wanted to introduce that was blocked by courts when Tamil parents opposed it?

    I am sorry to bother you but if and when you have time please explain in detail if you can.I’ll appreciate it greatly.Thanks

  166. Dear Krishnakumar,
    Do not get tense. Where is the question of ‘Ego’ in this? I do not know whether my ancesters have moved from Ceylon to Tamilnadu or from North India to Tamilnadu. But it does not matter. Where ever they have come from they have made Tamilnadu their home and have lived side by side of others who followed different route to reach Tamilnadu. They have asserted their self respect and respected others as long as it is reciprocated.

    Tamil has its own inherent strength antiquity beauty like any other old classic language.Tamil / Dravidian civilisation is old and it has its own positive and negative aspects. Even if Sindhu valley civilisation is not Dravidian, even if it is Aryan the antiquity and the continuity of Tamil/Dravidian civilisation can not be denied.But if you say people like Iravadam Mahadevan, Rev.Father Heras, Asko Parpola and others like them are Leftists or DMK/DK sympathisers, leftists and DMK/DK guys will be very happy.
    Please read Spencer Wells and Bryan Sykes too and get your own conclusion.

  167. Indus civilisation is not pre- Aryan and also not by dravidian.

    The latest evidence suggests it was not Dravidian, but most of the evidence points to it being pre-Aryan.

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  169. dear krishnakumar

    in your comment 165, you state that, quote” Writing scripts were introduced only in and around 1AD or 1BC to Tamil.
    So there is no way sangam literature could capture this
    submerging of land 10000 years back.” unquote.

    there again you have to have an open mind. information cn be passed on from one generation to another by word of mouth. subsequently when writing skills and language develops it can be converted to written form. so you can;t just look at when tamil writing scripts originated to determine when knowlege about the submerged land and kumarikandam originated. when it really originated the peple might have been so primitive that wriing would have been the last thing on their mind. but that does not mean they woundn’t have had a nice yarn around a campfire, just like we do at a pub, nowadays.

  170. 174. krishnakumar | September 28th, 2009 at 9:41 am

    “some one had mentioned about periyar not shaving his beard becoz of his stinginess but he never took bath daily and i dont think it was becoz of his stinginess may be he was a bit eccentric.”

    I made the similar statement(Comment 128), but I did not say he was stingy. I said he was frugal. He walked what he talked. When he was with the Congress, he cut all the Palmyrah and Coconut trees in his land to stop liquor production and consuming. He was not stingy. At the same time, he gave his land and 600000rupees to the then state government to build a school. It was quite a lot of money at that time. He lived an exemplary life. He said that he took bath once in 5 or 6days. He valued time and money. He, however, did not keep the money for himself, he left all willingly to the community.
    Easwaran

  171. #177 Kumar
    Dear Kumar,
    I concur with you. I was bit off tangent. But my point is when you evaluate the educational system please take into account how many people it has brought up and from where it has brought up them. I believe the TN educational system had calibrated reasonably well to serve the vast majority. The syllabus of TN State board is not stagnent. The syllabus and the standard at the time of my SSLC (1977) looks pathetic compared to the syllabus today. It is being reviewed and updated in very reasonable way. These things have happened despite the degeneration of the Dravidian parties. Things can be better. Sure.But the achievements even if they were told in a modest tone will certainly sound as waxing elequance.

    Please compare the record of districts with Chennai city in 10 th Std or 12 th Standard ranks – you will be surprised. Opinions like “CBSE syllabus is the best” are very subjective. ICSE lobby says theirs is the best. T.N government as per the advise of Educational experts like Dr.Anantha Krishnan, Dr Kulandaisamy do not accord any differnt status to CBSE or ICSE. I hope my friend Kumar too will have regards and respect to these experts.

    In 11 th & 12 th standard the focus shifts totally towards scoring in the subjects which are relevant for Engineering and Medical admission. As language is not taken into consideration many opt for Languages in which scoring is ‘easy’. Please note scoring in Tamil is always tough for a Tamil then in French or Sanscrit! Because our Tamil Aasiriyars who are the descendents of Nakeerar ( you know .. Netrikan Thirappinum…) will not tolerate even any minor mistake and probably they think if they give full mark for your explanation of a thirukural they will be cursed by Thiruvalluvar.

    More than anything else, Kumar seems to compare Tamilnadu with an non existing ideal system. Nothing wrong in it. But my point is TN’s record compared with other Indian States is ‘Not Bad’. Not only the record in Education but in other walks of life. True TN is not “First” in any thing. If it is Literacy we are distant second to Kerala, In Industrialisation we may be Third after Gujarat and Maharastra, agricultural productivity may come only after Punjab and Haryana .. list may go on.. But if you see the picture in a more holistic way certainly Tamilnadu’s record and standing is not bad.

    DBSJ,
    Parents of Ten Lakh students ( against 1 lakh) are already educating their wards in Stateboard syllabus. Except a miniscule minority who are having Urudu or Kannada or Telugu instead of Tamil, Stateboard students study Tamil. Please note they need not study Tamil. They are studying their mother tongue.TN Govt do not accept three language policy of the Central Govt.hence do not impose Tamil on Non Tamils in areas where they are of considerable numbers.

    Also please note as per the Qasi Federal System, education is in the current list. i.e a state government can not do all it wants. The Central Government also has a say.
    I can send you some books if you could send me your postal address to my e mail id.

    Thank you. I will be in touch………..DBSJ

  172. #183, Rajan,

    You need to read the comments fully before attempting to give any reply.

    1. You said ,” The syllabus of TN State board is not stagnent. The syllabus and the standard at the time of my SSLC (1977) looks pathetic compared to the syllabus today. It is being reviewed and updated in very reasonable way.”
    Did I ever say the syllabus has not been reviewed? This is what I said: “from then on though periodically the contents are revised and new materials added and old deleted the quality has not been regained so far.”
    All I had said was that the revision did not result in a true rise in standards.

    2. You said,”Opinions like “CBSE syllabus is the best” are very subjective. ICSE lobby says theirs is the best. T.N government as per the advise of Educational experts like Dr.Anantha Krishnan, Dr Kulandaisamy do not accord any differnt status to CBSE or ICSE.”

    It is not subjective. You either do not know the truth or have not seen the syllabus of every board. I have. And Ananthakrishnan and Kulandaisamy never talked about the standard of different boards. The reason they cited for not according any different treatment to these boards is simply due to the proportion of students passing out of these boards in comparison to the state board. The just said that their (the other boards) numbers being very less, no injustice would be meted out if they are treated on a par with the state board. Don’t misquote them or distort their views. Btw, these two are ex vice chancellors with lot of experience in engineering education. The TN govt used their experience in formulating the entrance exam and counseling as they were very familiar with the then existing engineering education system.

    Btw, let me tell you about the standards of our +2. About 4 years ago they wanted to revise the math syllabus for +2 and approached a few profs. My friend was one of them. While talking casually he mentioned this to me and wondered to what extent he should increase the standards and where to stop. I suggested that he take the CBSE syllabus and fill all the left out portions in state board syllabus with that. He did precisely that and you know what happened. Finally, after the committee considered this revision they said it’s a tough syllabus and watered down many of the contents.
    And one more thing. This is about the plight of students from tamil medium that struggle in engineering education. I have first hand experience with this as I was teaching in an engineering college in the recent past and I have seen how these guys suffer. A few out of them are a determined lot and they improve their english and by the time they finish they come out better. But the majority of them suffer throughout and passout with very low grades and literally unfit to be an engineer by any stretch of imagination. A sobering statistics for you. The CII & NASSCOM study of March 2009 revealed that only 18% of the engineering graduates passing out of TN engineering colleges are employable. This is not just the deficiency of soft skills alone. More than 60% are unfit to be having degrees in their respective branches of engineering. This is what NASSCOM says.

  173. #8. Wijeratna

    You make no sense.

    Tamils have lived in Sri Lanka for thousands of years. Who came first is irrelevant and only leads to useless arguments that are a waste of time.

    What we have to ask ourselves is, what is the right thing to do? What is the right policy based on whatever moral and justice framework you have.

    Most Sinhalese claim to be Buddhists. If so, then what moral framework can we apply as Buddhists to address minorities who, in my opinion have every right to Sri Lanka as a Sinhalese does.

    In my view, if you are born there, it is your country. What we need to do is to figure out what we need to do politically so that everyone can have justice. Frankly I am at a loss to understand why people are so afraid of devolution of political power. People view it as a Tamil province, a Muslim province etc… but it need not be so. Why not view it has simple provinces where certain powers have been devolved?

    What is the just path to take?

  174. to comment 154-ariya

    your quote” Every tamil in this world should consider coming to Tamil Nadu and helping it succeed, and by that way, they’d find their lost dignity!”-unquote.

    why don’t you also ask every anglosaxon in america, canada, australia and NZ to come back to good old england, and do the same.

  175. i find that there are a lot of comments on language in this blog.

    what is language? it is a means through which we communicate with each other. in otherwords it is a means to an end, not an end in itself. it is like a car we use to travel. there is no point in washing, and polishing the car, and admiring it the whole day. main purpose is to get into it and start using it.

    if the question arises, which language should we be proficient in, then ask yourself the question which language will be most useful to me.

    at the moment windows of opportunities are opened up if you are proficient in english. so just learn it and see that your kids learn it.

    a tamil kid in tamilnadu should learn tamil, english and hindi. that way you are spreading the risk for him, and opening up better opportunities.

  176. i do not understand why Kumar is so shrill..
    Any way..
    Our concerns seems to be different. Iam looking educational system as a social engineering tool. I feel the record of TN is good in comparison to other states.
    I studied in Tamil Medium upto SSLC and in my class (Elect Engg) most of my classmates are from Tamil medium with few from english medium. There was no appreciable difference. This was in 83 when private engg collages had not mushroomed. Starting from Malkam Adishesiah to Muthukumaran many Experts have stated many times about this.
    In recent time with mushrooming of private engineering collages the scenario is very different. To day in TN there are more than 300 Engineering collages. Many without proper faculty, labs, workshops. Today in TN in engineering admission the situation is “All are selected”.Your statistics are no wonder. How did other states especially those which are free from the influence of Dravidian parties have fared?
    Certainly Iam not an expert of Education. But for many years involved in Training and induction of new Engineers both in India and outside.Have some background and understanding. CBSE vis a vis ICSE is real and my personal experience.

    More than any thing else your idea that if the syllabus is tough that education system is good is too simplistic. Education has much more larger purpose than producing jombies as required by NASCOM and CII. TN govt irrespective of parties, from Kamaraj days have done fairly well. Dravidian movement should be given some credit. But for whom TN would have been another Bihar or Orissa.

  177. #188, Rajan,

    I don’t know whether you understand what I wrote or you pretend not to. I studied in tamil medium too up to my 10th std (equivalent to your old SSLC) and many of my classmates in engineering too. But that’s not the point. I am not talking about the 10% top rung students in tamil medium classes. That will be the case in any language in the world. Students who are in the top 20% can switch to any medium of instruction with ease. Also, you did your PUC in english medium didn’t you? That gave you some grounding in english medium education. Is that not right?. I did my +2 in English medium and that made my life easier in college. My posts were not about the above average students but about average guy.

    About ICSE and CBSE: ICSE is a copy of GCE O level and A level. While there is a tough match between ICSE and CBSE in 10th when it comes to +2, CBSE is a clear winner by miles.

    You also say that my statistics should not be surprising. That is shocking to say the least. As I said, I know personally that even in established colleges in and around chennai (with all facilities and reasonably good faculty) the percentage of students graduating with some semblance of knowledge is only around 40%. This is the scenario from the city scape and you are talking about quality of education. If you compare this to your class of 1983 you will know the difference.

    You say,”More than any thing else your idea that if the syllabus is tough that education system is good is too simplistic. ”
    You are talking too simplistic here. Science education beyond grade 8 should be on a tough ground. You can produce good engineers, scientists and doctors only with a tough grounding. Pray tell me why the iit graduates are rated high in the market? The country doesn’t require substandard and mediocre engineers. We are now hurtling down in a dangerous path. When the crash occurs the outcome is going to be disastrous.

    You say”TN govt irrespective of parties, from Kamaraj days have done fairly well. Dravidian movement should be given some credit. But for whom TN would have been another Bihar or Orissa.”
    You are talking like a typical TN politician here. Was Kamaraj part of the dravidian movement? You cleverly associate him with the dravidian parties (albeit with the caveat ‘irrespective of the parties’) and usurp his achievements to the side of the dravidian parties. Was TN like bihar or orissa in Kamaraj days? Were dravidian parties in power then? And today, are Andhra, Maharashtra, Karnataka, Gujarat and Punjab like bihar and orissa? Did these states have dravidian movement? What a logic! It’s precisely people like you that have brought TN to where it’s today. TN could have achieved much more had it continued in the same Kamaraj mould instead of veering course with the dravidian parties. Guys like you won’t acknowledge this. And that’s the problem. Enough said.

  178. DBSJ,
    I assure you this is my last posting on this topic.

    Dear Kumar,
    Let others judge who is pretending and who is not ready to acknowledge the historical facts figures and the process. I have admiration for the Dravidian Movement for its achievements and disappointments and anger for certain failures and its Degeneration today. Iam frank about it. In Last 40+ years the Dravidian parties have made all other political parties are only marginally relevant in Tamilnadu. Some may argue that the 90% Tamils who ensure this are all morons. But I feel there are some valid reasons. The educational opportunities developed by Dravidian Movement is one of the reason along with many other.

    Genesis of Dravidian movement is not in 1967 victory of DMK over congress. It is not even in the rise of Kamaraj head and shoulder above Rajaji and his disciples. Kamala’s elevation is a break. DMKs victory is some short of watermark event. But it was a culmination of a long process and a long relentless struggle. The main article attempts to portray some facets and precisely talks about certain aspects of this.

    Former prime minister Narasimha Rao is used to be said as a person who wears Khaki Trousers inside the Khadi Dhoti. This was to underline his pro Hindutva ideas. (The Hindu fanatical organisation RSS conducts drills in Khaki trousers) Kamaraj used to be termed as a Kadar clad ‘Self Respect’ man ( கதர் கட்டிய சுயமரியாதைக்காரர்). If we check who were his political rivals inside congress we could easily understand. The dravidisation of Tamilnadu congress is a matter which demands a separate exposition.

    Kumar asks whether Tamilnadu was like Bihar and Orissa at the time of Kamaraj? Correct question is whether Tamilnadu was like Bihar and Orissa before the advent of Dravidian Movement. Indeed for the vast majority of Tamils – Nye- Dravidians the situation is worse then in Bihar and Orissa. Please check up the percentage of Backward Class, Schedule Caste and Schedule Tribe people in education, govt. employment etc. For a small minority it was a golden era which has vanished and for which it is not ready to pardon the Dravidian movement. Andra, Karnataka and Kerala are all part of this process. Even Maharashtra with reformers like Jyothiba Pule, Chatrapathi Sahu Maharaj and Ambedkar has followed almost similar projectile sans the Dravidian Label and the linguistic component.

    Do not be surprised. Personally I belong to the minority which is not benefited by Reservation. I mean not benefited directly. But the competition generated by this process have sharpened the skills of all and the results are there to see for any one who have not shut their eyes and closed their minds. The world of Ideas and opinions are much more complex than what Kumar thinks and expressed by his words “ You people will not acknowledge etc etc..” who are these “ You people” ?!

    I feel my fellow Tamils Brothers and sisters in Srilanka and the Sinhalese friends have many points to learn to adopt as well as to avoid. Srilankan Tamils may understand what the Indian Tamils have achieved by being part of India and why they generally do not support secessionist tendencies. They can also note how the Indian Tamils have achieved their share in the experiment called India. I would say the Tamils have got more than their share compared to the people of North East and few other areas. Indian Tamils will not be ready to loose these gains even if they are sympathetic to their fellow Tamils elsewhere. It does not mean they were happy with Indian States role. People like Vaiko are defeated and people like EVKS. Elangovan, Manisankar Aiyar and Thangabalu were also defeated. Sinhala friends may note where ever the federal accommodation is effective in India, the problems of secessionism is absent or marginal. It is not uniform in India because many complexities and historical reasons. We Tamils are benefited by being part of India but India as a whole is also benefited by having us part of it. It is a strange algebra in which the parts will be benefited more then the whole by being a part. But the whole will also loose equally as the part in the long run if the part is made to loose.

    Thank you DBSJ for your patience and accommodation.

    DBSJ RESPONDS:

    Thank you for your valuable contribution. I do hope you will post comments as and when the need arises. The second part of my article will be posted later in the day. Please read and respond if necessary…………….

  179. to comment 185-ailepperuma

    i totally agree with you that who comes first to a country is irrelevant. once you are born in a country and grow up in it, it is natural for you to become fond of it and you are entitled to become an integral part of it. as dbsj used to quote “the people belong to the land, not vise versa. i can understand why he says that , because humans did not create the land.

    you have hit the nail on the head when you ask why the fear to devolve power. i think that is the crux of the matter between being large or small. by devolving power you can have a larger entity that can compete with the rest of the world, like what india is today, or you can be stingy with devolution and encourage secessnist movements that will result in smaller entities, that will get picked off one by one by the bigger powers, as what happened during our south asian history.

    i have always maintained the following principles

    a} devolution and seperation move in inverse directions. the more devolution that is given the less seperation needed.

    b} larger is always better than smaller.

    i hope we learn from our history and never have small small entities that will get picked off one by one. in the future the wars will be waged economically , not militarily.

  180. DBSJ,

    In 1998, the TN govt with MK as CM brought out a govt order that from the academic year 2000 onwards Tamil would be the medium of instruction up to grade 8 in all schools in TN. That is,in year 2000 tamil medium would be introduced in grade 1 , in 2001 in grade 2 and so on. Immediately, some parents and the association of matriculation school owners and a few private cbsc school owners went to the Madras high court. The court ruled that it is the prerogative of the parents to decide in what medium of instruction their children should be educated and the govt can’t dictate that as it would be violative of article 21 of the Indian constitution (fundamental rights). The DMK govt didn’t go for an appeal as apparently the attorney general opined that the govt would stand no chance in appeal. Then in 2001 when JJ came to power, she wanted to upstage MK and introduced scientific tamil (ariviyal thamizh) as a compulsory subject in all the classes till 10th grade to all those schools not having tamil as a subject. Again the parents went to court but the court ruled in favor of the govt saying that since the govt was only talking about an extra subject and that too it would not be taken into consideration for promotion to the next grade there was nothing wrong in the govt’s move to expect that all students in the state should at least get some familiarity with the official language of the state. The parents went on an appeal to the supreme court but the supreme court declined to grant any stay and the case was admitted. By the time the implementation progressed to grade 3 starting from grade1, govt changed in 2006 and MK scrapped the scientific tamil simply because it was brought in by JJ and introduced tamil as a compulsory subject till grade 8 (instead of up to grade 10). Parents went to court again but the court again declined to grant any stay. So as of now tamil is taught as a compulsory subject in grade 1 and grade 2 in all schools. (2007-2008 – grade 1, 2008-2009 grade 2) This is the situation as of now. I don’t know what is the status of the supreme court appeal.

    Thank you Kumar…………DBSJ

  181. to comment 192-kumar

    i think parents should decide what languages their children need to learn. at least there should be proper community consultation between state officials and parents on this issue, and the whole consultation process should be transparent and its outcome published.

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  183. to comment 120 -deva

    your quote” Just as India is for all Indians including Tamils , Sri Lanka is for all Sri Lankans including Tamils” unquote.

    your quote is the quote of the day i would say. but for this srilankan identity to be fostered don’t you think the same federal state arrangements that tamilnadu has, should be also given to the tamils of srilanka.

    let us assume tamilnadu never became a federal state. will they still consider themselves as indian first and tamil second.{iam asuming that is their preference now}

  184. The fact that the Indian nation has survived is an example of unity in diversity. The Indian Constitution has made enough safeguards to preserve the federal nature of our nation. Most of the comments made by the people smack of Sinhala/ Tamil Chauvinism. The need of the hour is for a dynamic and compassionate Sri Lankan Statesman who can weave the Sinhala majority and Tamil/ Burgher/ Moor minority into a indigenous fabric – coexisting peacefully with each other. Notions of Eelam and Mahvamsam need to be debunked!!

  185. to comment 196-eagleeye

    what is the difficulty for this would be statesman to just copy the indian constitution for srilanka. problem solved forever isn’t it. or is the size of srilanka vis a vis india prohibiting that, and if so why?

  186. A well written and timely article. I especially appreciate your point about the Aryan invasion theory being controversial. Many of my friends [both non-Brahmins and Brahmins] swear by this theory. Non-brahmins point to it to say that “Dravidians” have been discriminated by Brahmins throughout Indian history. Brahmins use it to claim a sort of ethnic superiority over other South Asians to justify their prominent [some call it privileged] positions in government, education and culture. These people do not know that the origin of the Aryan invasion theory was from European thinkers such as Max Mueller. Nazis profited from these works to expound on their own “racial superiority complex”.

    It is unfortunate that from the dawn of history, unscrupulous people have used ethnic identity and the differences between people [religion/language/caste] for political advantage.

    If ever there were Gandhian leaders who subscribed to greater principles than that, then there would be prosperity and harmony in these countries. Unfortunately in both India and Sri Lanka, the Tamil people have borne the brunt of it.

    But to patiently take it up the rear end as the Jewish people had persevered with in 30s Germany, results in the devastation of holocaust. Ours has always been a defensive nationalism to the tyranny of the majority.

    Tamil people must always realize that we have had as equally a glorious history as others. In the recent past, despite strong leadership, we have not prospered as a culture and nation. Too often, we are reminded of the differences within and wedges have been driven.

    We are still blinded and beholden to the outragious social evil of caste and regionalism. But this has been overcome by others in the past. With education of our youth, we will also better ourselves and be in a position to once again enunciate and defend our place in the World.

    On the other hand, if ever a Sri lankan or Indian leader was to abandon the larger pettyness of ethnicity and religion, then we’ll never have to defend anything.

    -Mahesan S.

  187. to comment 199-mahesan

    your quote” Unfortunately in both India and Sri Lanka, the Tamil people have borne the brunt of it.” unquote.

    now i was under the impression that the tamils of india have led a charmed life compared to the tamils of srilanka, though they have been doing their ‘sacrificial’ cheering lustily from the sidelines , while the fight went on for 25 years.

    you further quote”Tamil people must always realize that we have had as equally a glorious history as others” unquote.

    tell me anyone in the world, who does not claim that their people had a glorious history. how about having a glorious present and future for a change. you being a tamil, know that we believe in rebirth. what if the present tamil was not indeed a tamil, when we had this glorious history, but heaven forbid, a sinhalese.

  188. Hello DBS
    A good article.
    Yes freedom of speech and writing is a great thing in a democracy.
    I find in both side of the ethnic divide extreme elements
    who have no compassion for their brotherhood of man. What can we do about them. Ignore??Chellenge?
    or a mix.?? I leave it to the leaders/readers to decide

    Fighting for one’s language,relgion caste may be good thing for some. But for the majority of the human race these are trivial,when compared to the chalenges facing the human race today
    Let us unite and fight the global hunger , poverty and
    ignorance. These are the main factors which is impeding man’s progress.
    The gap between the haves and the have nots needs immediate attetion.
    DBS, yes you may think that,my comment has nothing to do with your excellent article

  189. To comment on # 197 Shankar.
    Sorry could not reply earlier. True the size of SL precludes any meaningful federal provincial Govts. As I could gather during my recent visit to SL, the 13th amendment in its present form grossly falls short of federalism. Pakiasothy Saravanmuthu of the CPA also in his writings opines that the since the 13th amendment was a fallout of the Indo SL Accord of 1987 probably the Govt of the day is therefore in no mood to devolve powers to the North and the East. As for other provinces, they are quite content with the present dispensation. I think the Tamils must now focus on rebuilding their homes and families and require a secure and compassionate environment to prosper. As regards the issue of “Statesman” – sadly no Tamil Leader as yet in the Horizon. Perhaps some expatriate Tamils could fill in the void ??

  190. to eagleeye

    But why is the size precluding the nine provinces from having the same devolution of power that India has?. This is what I cannot understand. Just because we are small we should not automatically have an inferiority complex.

  191. To Shankar,

    I agree. Ideally like in the case of India other than, Defence, Foreign Affairs, Commerce, Homeland Security, Surface Communication, Ports & Airports other subjects must be jointly administered by bothe the Central Government at Colombo and the Provincial Government. Like when I said earlier that the size of the provinces preclude any meaningful devolution – I meant that the viability of these departments would not be cost effective vis a vis the income generated in the provinces. From what I gather, other than the Eastern Province ( Mr Pillaiyan) no other province is interested in devolution of powers !!
    Even the statements made by President Mahinda Rajapakse in an interview in Jul 2009 echoes the unwillingness on part of the establishment to meaningfully follow up on the 13th amendment. I quote -” I know what to give and I know what not to give. The people have given me the mandate, so I’m going to use it. No way for federalism in this country. For reconciliation to happen there must be a mix of ethnicities.
    “Even tomorrow I can give that [political solution] – but I want to get that from the people. I am waiting, but it will be after my [re]election [as President].”

    So, Shankar,now with the LTTE out of the picture there is no compulsion on the SL Government !! We have to wait and see what the re-election has to offer.

  192. To Shankar,

    I agree with you. Ideally, like in the case of India, Defence, Commerce, Internal (homeland ) security, Surface Transport, Ports & Airports and foreign affairs should be handled by the Central Government at Colombo and other Departments (Finance, Education, Culture, Lands etc) should be jointly administered by both the Central Government and the Provicial Governments.
    What I meant when I said that size of SL precludes any meaningful federal provincial Govts – is that the financial viability of maintaining such diverse portfolios both at Centre and Provinces vis a vis the income generated by the provinces in the state subjects is suspect.
    For instance in the case of India the states earn revenue from natural resources like coal, iron ore, oil, gas that are mined in the states though the distribution and control over the resources is controlled centrally. The states also levy taxes on all items that are sold in the state with different rates for items produced in the state and different for items from other states with an overall MRP fixed by the Central Excise department. The size of Provinces in SL precludes meaningful generation of such incomes. Moreover from what I gather, there is reluctance in the powers to really address the issue. I would like to reproduce an interview given by President to the Hindu in Jul 2009 – “I know what to give and I know what not to give. The people have given me the mandate, so I’m going to use it. No way for federalism in this country. For reconciliation to happen there must be a mix [of ethnicities]. “Even tomorrow I can give that [political solution] – but I want to get that from the people. I am waiting, but it will be after my [re]election [as President].”

    Now with the LTTE out of the picture-no one can really coerce the Government. We have to only wait and see what the reelection will throw up.

    However, the North and East Provinces must be given adequate room on the following issues – Land, Infrastructural development, Social Security, health and primary education. More than anything “Equality of opportunity without racial discrimination ” would be the best gift any Sinhala Government can give the Tamils. I am confident that if the Tamils are given that , they will prosper by their diligence and perseverance.

  193. India is a country unified by Hindu religion. By attacking Hinduism, Dravidian parties were attacking Tamil Culture itself. Hence separitism couldn’t thrive. The shrewwd Annadurai saw it and gave up secessionism and atheism and won. Periyar became a nuissance boy. Again MGR went one step ahead and practised soft Hindutva reaching big electoral benefits.

  194. sir ,your articles have been very interesting.it has broadened my horizons and i seem to understand tamil nadu its society and politics much better.im a gujrati married to a telegu.my husband is a chowdhury[kamma].and so going through a book on the kamma history i realised that chowdhurys spread throughout south.Vaiko the tamil politician is also a chowdhury .there are 30% chowdhurys in tamil nadu .please throw some light on it.also i hear that karunanidhi is a telegu of the mangal[barber] community.

  195. Interesting articles on this site but just a few points that I would like too point out;

    1. The Idea that the Sinhala people are from India is first mentioned in the Mahawamsa. Which is a Dynastic book written in the 4th Century by a Buddhist priest from the Soli Country(Tamil Nadu).
    2. Their is in fact NO archelogical evidences, for such an event but their is written records by Kuveni and even her father.
    3. Haaaaahaaaa…Devanapiyatissannnn lol….Are guys are funny. Its quite sad and pathetic, that their are people who are so desperate, that faking names is now a fashion hahahaha….
    4. Archelogical activities, have been carried in the North of Lanka for now well over a hundred years but still yet to find ANY local Tamil artifacts…Finding items from South India, doesnt quite count.
    5. In 1505, the Portuguese arrived in Lanka…All their records state clearly of not only of Sinhala majority North but also of the fact the their battles expect for one which was with Muslims…Were with the Sinhalese…Where were the Tamils????
    6. Concerning this same period…Sankili, the so called Tamil king…His treaty with the Portuguese is is Portuguese and Sinhala!

    Other examples include;

    *Sinhala army capturing Portuguse spyes, sent to check on Sankili.
    *Commander of the forces is Sinhalese guy named Urasinhe.
    *The emblem of the Jaffna royals, is a lion. Which is not a Tamil symbol.
    *The people that were encountered in the Palace of Sankili are Sinhalese, Bedagaz(Telegu) and Muslims.
    *After the conquest of Jaffna, Portuguse state that Jaffna town is packed with Sinhalese….

    So where are the Tamil’s????

    7. Look, its simple…any time that SL Gov wants it can prove very easily that the majority of all Tamil people arrived via the Dutch and British Colonilalist’s. So keep fabricating history and having an imaginary past in Lanka. Because, that’s all you lairs will ever have!!!!

  196. Thnk you for bringin tamil seperatist demands and teh reason for that , i m from north India and surely automaticaaly an invader , adn an out sider , secondly its obviosu i will not be able to match up your intellectualism as I am not from TAMIL…..but dont u think with the dialects of Hindia, Punjabi (khalistan), Maharashtra (Maratha), Gorkhaland, Vidarbha, Gujarat , Bengal with Bangladesh …….all demanding seperate states will do …..secondly I am really thnkfull to you for bringing out the comments and the hatred that people has spat on the concept of ” Mother India” which even i was unaware they have in mind . Lastly thnaks for divulging the information from the people that no matter what a chauvinist attitude remains ,,,,, irrespective of the fact that I fail to know we in North India are busy facing threats from outside counrty and for centuries has faced the tyrrany of the plunderers and looters from all over the world , while in the back a knife was ready by our “SOUTH INDIAN ” brothers to treat ………you talk about great kings and your political leaders but dear Sir, I would know how many people from above do really know the ir fore fathers and their forfathers name and full family tree.
    ,its something because of you so called self proclaimed intellectuals who even has glorified Jinnah for his support , because of whom millions of people have been killed but why will you care. The care for a nation comes only when it is a nation not a pain to be bear . Dear Sir, I sometimes would really request the so called Congress and so called Brahmin , ( though m not one ) , to give you your seperate country but do you really think will that be an optional after which Tamil problems will be gone , No , at your age and your responsibilty and experience I as a youngster request you to give todays Youth a paved path to be together and united , and not to be shed of on all age old term of North India and South India………….. and lastly I dont know your God and my God are same or different , but if its the same Vishnu , Balaji , and Karthik, Shiva then terms like Brotherhood and vasudev kutumbakam is surely to be asked to taught ….

    I am sorry if i Hurted someoness EGO but stop this division through language and if its really what you want please dont spoil millions of people who have died for independence for INDIA and not for a country where people think of themselves different

  197. Great article although it is both revealing and disappointing to read that Mr. EVR Periyar was one of the votaries for a separate Dravidastan and was prepared to support Mr. Jinnah’s demands for the carving up of this ancient and noble land into several “stans”.

  198. Personally, I don’t want Tamil Nadu to separate from india. Ive been calling myself an Indian for my whole life. Ive been back to tamil nadu only a couple times and believe that the common folk do not want to separate either. but i have been seeing a lot of anti tamil sentiments from different places in india and the typical racist sentiments and attitudes and can see why secessionism has some steam. My family in tamil nadu loves the flag and the nation just as any other indian. its just a terrible situation all around it seems that the politicians are spreading hate for votes and insecurities.

  199. The huge support to AryoDravido theory in India caters to different sections for different purpose. For elite upper class North Indians it throws open avenues to merge with fair skinned people of world
    and enjoy benefits of materialism without engaging in production. For Bengal and Kerala it is survival since communism can thrive only in hatred and class struggle. For Tamilnadu the whole Non Brahmin population is suffering from identity crisis. The OBCs of North India are never bothered about AIT since they are firmly rooted in their habitation and they are not truly religious and turned to religion when situation demands. The upper class North Indians wantonly abuse peace loving OBCs by Aryan invasion theory thus doing greatest injustice to Megasthenes who specifically states that Indians never invade. While South Indian kings from Satavahanas to Krishnadevaraya plundered north let one historian tell about one North Indian king who plundered south INDIA and immigrated Brahmins. Compare Cholas’ invasion of North with Dharma digvijayam of Guptas’. Can Cholas be considered as Dravidians since they settled a large number of Brahmins in Tamilnadu from Bengal, Ayodhya, Purvadesam and even Kashmir. While Cholas’ prasasthis give accurate description of North the North and even Alberuni does not mention about Cholas. None of the Sanskrit literature had recognized Tamil or Pallavas/Cholas. The reference to Pandiyas/Kerala is due to proximity to Srilanka/Karnataka. Actually the word Dravida appears only in Buddhistic literature and even Srilankan chronicle Mahavamsa had never considered Tamil. How is that Aryans invaded south only during Vedic age there was invasion and after that up to current period North Indians don’t know the existence of Tamil.The advocators of AIT should first of all identify the Dravidians who are having a continuous legacy of at least two thousand years like Gujjars, Yadavs, Jats etc.,of North instead of identifying Bunts/Nair’s as possible Dravidians.The present community in Tamilnadu comprises immigration from Andhra/Srilanka/cross currents of trans Indian ocean and reminiscence of social order arose due to merchant guilds of Chola hegemony. Lastly the social order in Karnataka/Andhra/Tamilnadu during the period from fourth century to fourteenth century emerged entirely due to merchant guilds having thirty two nagarams/eighteen vishayas/sixty four agricultural settlements as ninety six groups of valangai/idangai.The number ninety six is significant since Kunbis of Maharashtra also claims that.It is high time that the AIT needs a deep burial.

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